Chevrolet vs GMC

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by 2000v6

I'm not talking about minivans, I'm talking about straight up vans. GM never left the express and savana still exist. Why did ford come back with the transit? Why is there talk going on that fiat may bring over or create a new van for chrysler?

Trust me, people aren't coming from their trucks and SUVs into Express vans and Savanas. The full size van market is almost exclusively commercial these days, that goes for the Transit Connect too.

[2000v6]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Trust me, people aren't coming from their trucks and SUVs into Express vans and Savanas. The full size van market is almost exclusively commercial these days, that goes for the Transit Connect too.

Yeh, I know. What matters is if contractors go looking for a new car, unless they really need a pickup, they prefer to buy a van. At least the ones, I know. I mean, yes they do have pickups, but they only drive them if they are going on rural roads, or roads that plain out suck.

[2000v6]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

So if it were up to you, you would further neuter Pontiac towards an economy brand and kill off GMC instead? Then we could look forward to wonderful ideas a G3 Hybrid and kiss the 4th best selling truck goodbye. And to restructure Pontiac to be as profitable as GMC is right now would be a massive undertaking. For each Yukon sold they probably make a proffit equal to the cost of a G5. Pontiac would have to have a price increase (to seperate it from Chevy) and have a huge volume increase to get on even footing with GMC, but do all this without eating into Cadillac and Buick. This is a nearly impossible task, compared to keeping another brand which posts large profits, good sales volume, and has a fairly clear identity. If it ain't broke, why kill it?

GMC doesn't exactly compete with Cadillac, its closer in position to Buick (which you seem to have left out). But even then, there is only 1 model with either that shares a platform with GMC (Escalade/Yukon Acadia/Enclave). So getting away from the luxury cars, GMC's are nicer trucks than their Chevy counterparts. Stronger styling, more features and options. Its said that a company may buy Chevy's for their work trucks, but the foreman will get a GMC for himself.

No, I wouldn't have killed off GMC, it would still be around. But I would kill off any pontiac cars that were rebadged and only sell the g8 and the solstice. So basically, it would only be a brand for a small niche.

Eh... foreman's are still under the owners. And at least the owners that I know, buy cadillacs or german cars.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by 2000v6

No, I wouldn't have killed off GMC, it would still be around. But I would kill off any pontiac cars that were rebadged and only sell the g8 and the solstice. So basically, it would only be a brand for a small niche.

Which is something GM can't afford to do right this moment.

[Easy Go]

While the business case could change over time based on various factors (price of gas, available cash, truck volumes, etc) it was determined that there was still enough brand-value and positive cash flow in GMC to maintain both Chevy and GMC truck programs - trimming out the GMC's a bit more premium than the Chevys.

This may seem odd, but I think what would ultimately make GMC go away is a rock-solid Buick brand. Buick's doing ok and is turning it's image around (consistently while not too abruptly) with great new product, but from a marketing/distribution perspective, I don't think Buick is quite ready to stand on it's own (outside of China). Therefore Buick and GMC are kept lumped together. When Buick doesn't "need" trucks in the showroom, I think GMC will go bye bye.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by 2000v6

I don't know, maybe it's just me. I just don't see the point for that middle ground. Especially when really there is no "middle" ground. It's the exact same thing.

Corvette - I don't see that as three different models, I see them as different sub-models. It's different versions when it comes to performance. The base coupe - nothing special
The Z06 - the affordable corvette for the middle class, while still being pretty good at the track
The ZR1 - the corvette for the rich class, when it comes to corvettes, it the king

the highlighted part is the reason we have GMC as the "middle tier"

its an "upgrade" from the chevy line, but its not as over the top as the caddy version.


and its not the exact same thing. sure, generally speaking the vehicles are very similar (built on the same architecture), but look past the badges and youve got a little more luxury in the GMC trucks over the chevy ones and even more so in the caddy's. People want some luxury, but cant afford the top of the line, so they settle for the middle ground.
without that middle ground, GM customers might go to another company to buy the vehicle that gives them the luxury they want at the price they can afford.

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by Easy Go

While the business case could change over time based on various factors (price of gas, available cash, truck volumes, etc) it was determined that there was still enough brand-value and positive cash flow in GMC to maintain both Chevy and GMC truck programs - trimming out the GMC's a bit more premium than the Chevys.

This may seem odd, but I think what would ultimately make GMC go away is a rock-solid Buick brand. Buick's doing ok and is turning it's image around (consistently while not too abruptly) with great new product, but from a marketing/distribution perspective, I don't think Buick is quite ready to stand on it's own (outside of China). Therefore Buick and GMC are kept lumped together. When Buick doesn't "need" trucks in the showroom, I think GMC will go bye bye.

Well, I hope GMC will not go bye-bye. My wife and I like the GMC Terrain sooooo much better than the Equinox and I expect to like the GMC version of the next small pickup truck better as well...especially if it hits hwy mpg's in the 30's. That vehicle may well be my next DD.

[Easy Go]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Well, I hope GMC will not go bye-bye. My wife and I like the GMC Terrain sooooo much better than the Equinox and I expect to like the GMC version of the next small pickup truck better as well...especially if it hits hwy mpg's in the 30's. That vehicle may well be my next DD.

The Terrain is awesome, isn't it? If instead of it being badged "GMC" it was an uplevel Chevy with the same appearance, options, materials, etc. - would you be less inclined to buy it?

Pardon the hypothetical, but I see no reason Chevy trucks couldn't excel to be everything GMC trucks are - but GMC exists and therefore Chevy has to be "held back" if you will. You've got a value line and a premium line - I see no reason they can't coexist peacefully under the Chevy brand other than GMC dealer/franchise obligations and the symbiotic relationship of Buick/GMC.

Granted - with massive sales volumes the business case presents itself that there is value in having two separate truck brands - but those days are not currently upon us.

To add, I think that the dissolve of Pontiac makes room for Chevy to "be more" in terms of styling and performance. Not to say that there aren't significant emotional pangs with Pontiac on it's way out and Chevy can't possibly fill that void for some fans.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Easy Go

The Terrain is awesome, isn't it? If instead of it being badged "GMC" it was an uplevel Chevy with the same appearance, options, materials, etc. - would you be less inclined to buy it?

Pardon the hypothetical, but I see no reason Chevy trucks couldn't excel to be everything GMC trucks are - but GMC exists and therefore Chevy has to be "held back" if you will. You've got a value line and a premium line - I see no reason they can't coexist peacefully under the Chevy brand other than GMC dealer/franchise obligations and the symbiotic relationship of Buick/GMC.

Granted - with massive sales volumes the business case presents itself that there is value in having two separate truck brands - but those days are not currently upon us.

To add, I think that the dissolve of Pontiac makes room for Chevy to "be more" in terms of styling and performance. Not to say that there aren't significant emotional pangs with Pontiac on it's way out and Chevy can't possibly fill that void for some fans.

Couldn't you make the exact same argument for Buick and Cadillac as well?

[Easy Go]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Couldn't you make the exact same argument for Buick and Cadillac as well?

Absolutely! In fact - when it was announced that Pontiac would be disposed of via BK, I was really surprised that Buick somehow cleared the hurdle except for the fact that Buick is HUGE in China and there's real opportunity there for GM as a global company. Barring that, Buick would have been a goner.

Having said that, I think there's domestic hope for Buick given the LaCrosse and Regal - great cars - we just have to see whether sales and marketing can figure out how to get people into the dealerships to try them.

...it's not like Tiger Woods is going to be much help.

[CamaroScotty]

Chevy will always be the Bread n butter for GM, even more in the next few years.

As an FYI, our internet manager sold GMC's at his last job. Those customers are now buying Chevy's from us. Sometimes a good salesperson makes all the difference - so I am told

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by Easy Go

The Terrain is awesome, isn't it? If instead of it being badged "GMC" it was an uplevel Chevy with the same appearance, options, materials, etc. - would you be less inclined to buy it?

Pardon the hypothetical, but I see no reason Chevy trucks couldn't excel to be everything GMC trucks are - but GMC exists and therefore Chevy has to be "held back" if you will. You've got a value line and a premium line - I see no reason they can't coexist peacefully under the Chevy brand other than GMC dealer/franchise obligations and the symbiotic relationship of Buick/GMC.

Granted - with massive sales volumes the business case presents itself that there is value in having two separate truck brands - but those days are not currently upon us.

To add, I think that the dissolve of Pontiac makes room for Chevy to "be more" in terms of styling and performance. Not to say that there aren't significant emotional pangs with Pontiac on it's way out and Chevy can't possibly fill that void for some fans.

Yes, we would buy the Terrain as a Chevy if it looked identical to the GMC version and had similar features.

[K-A]

I think the existence of GMC is one of the many reasons GM came to be in such a poor state, and one of many very poor business decisions.

Fact is, GM bloated their lines with far too much re-badging than they could handle.

Sure GMC might offer slight tid-bits here or there over Chevy, and sure they might have now built a large following, making it difficult for them to consider axing it. However if they had known what they were doing in the first place, they wouldn't have two identical Tahoe's, for example, with a difference here or there, which is a waste of money, to put it extremely simply.

I have no doubts that were they producing all their Trucks from one of the lines from the get-go, they would have combined all the split Sales to the one chosen brand. At the very least, I understand if these Trucks had huge differences in styling or luxury, etc., however let's face it, most people can't even tell a difference, minus the grilles.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by K-A

I think the existence of GMC is one of the many reasons GM came to be in such a poor state, and one of many very poor business decisions.

Fact is, GM bloated their lines with far too much re-badging than they could handle.

Sure GMC might offer slight tid-bits here or there over Chevy, and sure they might have now built a large following, making it difficult for them to consider axing it. However if they had known what they were doing in the first place, they wouldn't have two identical Tahoe's, for example, with a difference here or there, which is a waste of money, to put it extremely simply.

I have no doubts that were they producing all their Trucks from one of the lines from the get-go, they would have combined all the split Sales to the one chosen brand. At the very least, I understand if these Trucks had huge differences in styling or luxury, etc., however let's face it, most people can't even tell a difference, minus the grilles.

Their most profitable brand is a bad business decision? Please explain. Also, you talk about how big of a waste of money GMC is, yet then go on about how it isn't unique from Chevy. The more similar they vehicles are, the less money has been spent on them, and consequently minimal wasted money.

Also, most people can't tell the difference between any two vehicles in the same segment, once badges are removed. You'd be surprised at how many people think a Malibu is a Camry.