My son is struggling...........

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

I think Honor and Advanced classes are good. In Zac's case they have been a godsend. He started in kindergarden being in all day class taught only in French. His teacher said he would of been totally bored if he would of went to regular kindergarden.

Now he is in Middle School and got 6 A's and 1 B. Of that the A in Advance Math, A in Advanced Reading and B in Advanced English. His advanced English teacher is really tough and getting a A or B in her class is tough. Stephanie got a D in her class. Thing is with No Child Left Behind if they do not do the Honor or Advanced classes they really do not get to open up their minds and be really challenged.

Get him a totur or have him have a smart friend over to help him out.

[CynAgain]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I don't consider honors, and AP classes a mistake. Truth is, it takes a lot of work to succeed....these classes pay off in the end. I got out of 3 classes in college, while still receiving credit for them. I know very FEW people who get awfully low grades in those classes...BUT......and this coming from a teacher-to-be:

If you're son is trying his hardest, but getting consistently lower grades than 85% - pull him out. This is a goal EVERY student should reach towards, and is considered "mastery" of the subject matter. If it's lower, then he's not suited for the class. It doesn't mean he's dumb, or that he's quitting, it just means it wasn't for him. Everybody's different. Another option is to pick just one of the Honors classes -- that's tough, and there's really no added benefit to taking an advanced Chemistry, for example, if he's not going to be a chemist....

In my senior year of high school, I took the hardest math class my school system offered: AP Calculus BC (It was two years of Calc stuffed into one). It was not easy...but I got a 4/5 and a 5/5 on the final exam. I had a job, I was president of two high-profile organizations (including editor of the yearbook of a school of 1700 kids), and I was working on a controller for a CNC mill in my "extra time".........I don't post this to brag, but only to say that I've been there, and I know it can be done. It takes exceptional amounts of work; and real effort in terms of time-managment.

My advise? Spend lots, lots, lots, lots of time after class with the teacher (if the teacher cooperates) and go over everything he's having trouble with.

Second, and most importantly: ASK QUESTIONS...this is the #1 mistakes students make. They're self-conscious, or afraid, or whatever to ask questions in class...and then they struggle. The teacher is there for that reason; so use it!! "The only stupid question is the one not asked." If you don't ask, you'll never find out.

Good luck.

This is the best post I've read so far and Dragoneye - you're an exception to the norm. An overachiever you are!

I wanted to add that both math and chem require solid problem solving skills. Perhaps your son needs a little help in this area and a tutor can help here too! Its good for your son to push and try to over come these challenges but if he can't get past 85% then take a step back and evaluate. He may find the key when he's not trying so hard.

Good Luck to your son PQ!

[swansor]

I think you hit the nail on the head with your post... "He's doing great in Guitar though". So the potential is there but not the motivation. And at 15 what kid wants to learn Chem/Trig. I still have my guitar. Stay involved and keep the pressure on him. The tutoring idea sounds good and I agree that the honors classes help a lot when going to college. The first 2 years of college are those honors classes with a little more added on.

I think with trig and chem both classes require a lot of memorization for the building blocks to being able to do the problem solving. There’s no substitution to learning the formulas and rules. Study study study.... Put down the guitar and study ughhhhh.

Ohh and the talk to the teacher idea pays dividends. It shows the teacher that you want to learn and you care. My uncle once told me that if I had trouble in a class talk to the teacher. Sorta like kissing the bosses @ss. Teachers give breaks to the students they like. Sorta just like life...

Hope you find the best solution for your son. Good luck.

[Jekyll-N-Hyde]

Hey PQ just stand behind your son and let him know he is doing a good job when he actually does. Trig is not an easy class better yet its not any easier when you are taking an honors class.
Tell him to just try his hardest and to not give up.
Encouragment will help out a lot for your kids in school coming from the parents.
My parents were always there encourging me when I did good however they were also always there when I needed a foot in my A$$.
Dont feel like you are only setting them up to always expect someone to always say good job at everything they do in life because you wont be.
Honor classes are not the easiest. Just hearing he is in these classes says enough as it is. I'm sure he will be ok. It helps out sometimes knowing our parents are behind us and that they were not perfect either at things like this.

[Windy City]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Well said Dragoneye. I can imagine what my boss would say if I told him I needed an easier job because this one was too hard. The world doesn't work that way.

I'm sure PQ will do the right thing for HIS son, it's interesting to see all the different opinions on this topic though.

This first statement makes my case in a way. I have never had to answer to "my boss" as I have been self employed my whole life.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

I respectfully disagree with you junkie. Aside from Bill Gates I don't think most people could name five non college educated billionaires (without the use of google) . I think "most" is just an inappropriate term for this. Statics have proven time and again that people in the higher earning brackets are university educated, you just don't hear about them because they're not unique.

Obviously there are exceptions but to suggest that PQ should take his kid out of honors courses because "most" million and billionaires are uneducated just isn't a fair statement.

PQ you opened a can of worms with this one!

I may be wrong as I have been before, but I do not think anyone stated "most" million and billionaires are uneducated. Spending time and money in a formal school is not the only way to gain an education.

[PQ]

Ok, just read through the thread and thanks for the responses. Some things brought up that I hadn't considered. Joe, you are a very smart guy. Impressive. Good show.

Ya, the reallity that my son is not perfect is hitting me. I kinda feel bad for him because I really tore him a new one lastnite. 52 in Chemistry and 62 in Trig. I ask him regularly how he's doing and he just syas "IONO" I told him that I could handle a poor grade if your busting your ass trying to do well but until I see that, then you're ass is mine.

I'm meeting with his teachers on Monday. I can tollerate poor grades as long as you come to me and tell me you need help. I can't help him but I can get him help. I will not take him out of the honors classes for this year, but if he continues to struggle after he gets help then he can lower it next year.

I'll break that Fn guitar over his head. Arts are stupid anyway. jmo

[PQ]

I understand the idea that a lot of people who get their education don't use it, or enjoy careers in a different feild or self employ or whatever but one thing that they allways have is an education to fall back on. If you count on the other and it doesn't work, you're in big trouble because now you have no training or edu.

[GTAHVIT]

As far as being successful with out a degree goes, let me add one more thought to the mix.

I dropped out of college to join the Navy. My Navy experience got me the job I have now. I finished my degree after I got out of the Navy which has allowed me to get promotions and pay increases I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Next is my MBA which will allow me to make the next big jump.

My parents are business owners both without degrees and have been very successful...

As someone who sees resumes on a weekly basis... I can tell you.... You have to have at least 5 years of relevant work experience if you are are competing against someone with a degree...

Meaning if I need to hire some one with five years of experience as a minimum, and two people apply who have that experience, and one also has a degree, the person without the degree would need 10 total years to compete...

In this economy the Degree is a huge help. FWIW.

[Jekyll-N-Hyde]

PQ first off dont be so hard on yourself. As you said up above let him know all he has to do is come to you and ask for help.
I had a hard time as well asking for help in school but when my father said No pass No play ( football ) it opened my eyes. Sometimes when something is hard kids get scared and dont want to ask for help because they let the preasure overtake them. Going to speak with the Teacher will do wonders you may find out more than you know.
Go home talk with your son and let him know you will get him help but he is going to have to put some effort.
Trust me if you tore into him lastnight it has crossed his mind a time or two today.

If honors classes are not for him thats ok also. Honors classes dont always get you higher and in better places. Trust me on that one. He needs to understand MAth itself befoe he is thrown to the wolves.
Trig is Math on steriods and honors trig is freaking INSANE .

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

As someone who sees resumes on a weekly basis... I can tell you.... You have to have at least 5 years of relevant work experience if you are are competing against someone with a degree...

Meaning if I need to hire some one with five years of experience as a minimum, and two people apply who have that experience, and one also has a degree, the person without the degree would need 10 total years to compete...

In this economy the Degree is a huge help. FWIW.

you couldnt have said it any better. That paper is a lot in todays society however expierence is a lot as well.
Go get that paper and make yourself better.

Sad thing imo I went and got that paper and basically all you are doing is buying your degree. SAD

Go get the paper its takes you to higher places.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

As far as being successful with out a degree goes, let me add one more thought to the mix.

I dropped out of college to join the Navy. My Navy experience got me the job I have now. I finished my degree after I got out of the Navy which has allowed me to get promotions and pay increases I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Next is my MBA which will allow me to make the next big jump.

My parents are business owners both without degrees and have been very successful...

As someone who sees resumes on a weekly basis... I can tell you.... You have to have at least 5 years of relevant work experience if you are are competing against someone with a degree...

Meaning if I need to hire some one with five years of experience as a minimum, and two people apply who have that experience, and one also has a degree, the person without the degree would need 10 total years to compete...

In this economy the Degree is a huge help. FWIW.

Makes perfect sense. There is a reason a degree can be so damned expensive. Me and Bonnie both have credited education beyond HS but Bonnies is Cosmotology and mine is CDL and 1 yr community college. So basically we are informaly educated and struggled for years until we rolled the dice and got creative in raising the money to buy a business and grow it up. And we had to get lucky and have the perfect scenario present it's self to us. We had to be very fortunate, take risks that could have ruined us, and work VERY hard and long to get where we are. And we still have to work very hard and long to keep it going. I'm ashamed a little to have never gotten my college degree. I had the opportunity and pissed it away. We decided to have a family while we were young so we could still have some 'game' when the kids moved out. It's working out but at the cost of my degree. I will NOT allow my kids to do the same.

This is why I am so bummed that all of the sudden James is having problems.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Jekyll-N-Hyde

PQ first off dont be so hard on yourself. As you said up above let him know all he has to do is come to you and ask for help.
I had a hard time as well asking for help in school but when my father said No pass No play ( football ) it opened my eyes. Sometimes when something is hard kids get scared and dont want to ask for help because they let the preasure overtake them. Going to speak with the Teacher will do wonders you may find out more than you know.
Go home talk with your son and let him know you will get him help but he is going to have to put some effort.
Trust me if you tore into him lastnight it has crossed his mind a time or two today.

If honors classes are not for him thats ok also. Honors classes dont always get you higher and in better places. Trust me on that one. He needs to understand MAth itself befoe he is thrown to the wolves.
Trig is Math on steriods and honors trig is freaking INSANE .




you couldnt have said it any better. That paper is a lot in todays society however expierence is a lot as well.
Go get that paper and make yourself better.

Sad thing imo I went and got that paper and basically all you are doing is buying your degree. SAD

Go get the paper its takes you to higher places.

I still plan on getting my degree but I can't see how I'll find the time until our business grows to the point I can let it sustain it'sself. Just not at that point yet.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by PQ

I still plan on getting my degree but I can't see how I'll find the time until our business grows to the point I can let it sustain it'sself. Just not at that point yet.

I think that is Windy's point. Your situation may not require the degree. You and Bonnie have the skills you need to be successful...

I need that "check in the block" to continue to be successful.

Like Dragoneye and others have said. Everyone is different. I think your decision on how to handle your son is a sound one... Let him gut it out for a year, do everything you can to help him. Then go from there.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

I think that is Windy's point. Your situation may not require the degree. You and Bonnie have the skills you need to be successful...

I need that "check in the block" to continue to be successful.

Like Dragoneye and others have said. Everyone is different. I think your decision on how to handle your son is a sound one... Let him gut it out for a year, do everything you can to help him. Then go from there.

Well, if they discover a majic pill you take to grow your hair back then I'm screwed.

Of course if Ii'm the one to make the pill then It's Bill Gates territory for me.

Of course with James struggling in Chemistry, how will I find the pill?

But if he turns it around I'll be rock solid.

Then again if he doesn't share with me I'm screwed again.

However I can guilt hm into hooking me up.

But ...............................................

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by PQ

Well, if they discover a majic pill you take to grow your hair back then I'm screwed.

Of course if Ii'm the one to make the pill then It's Bill Gates territory for me.

Of course with James struggling in Chemistry, how will I find the pill?

But if he turns it around I'll be rock solid.

Then again if he doesn't share with me I'm screwed again.

However I can guilt hm into hooking me up.

But ...............................................

Uhm... I think you need more help then you are letting on...

just sayin..