Feds Propose Making Black Boxes Standard In New Cars

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

I respect your right to practice any religion you see fit

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

[StephenS_84]

More government isn't the answer.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

This is the wrong attitude. Think about it. You're not dealing drugs are you? Well good, you don;t mind if the police just come in and do a random search do you? You do? Why? if you're not doing anything WRONG, why would you mind?

Now look, I don't mind the black box for the purposes that so many advocates claim- finding out better ways of making cars safer, etc. But I strongly disagree with the way that private citizens are having their actions monitored all the time. It is, in the USA, expected that a private citizen can expect reasonable privacy.

This is why you have legal concerns over say wiretaps.

Now you might say "this is different". No. In concept it is not. if you think it is 'different', then go back to the drug dealing example and read it again. And don;t look at it as "I don't deal drugs". That's not the point. Look at it as "why should I be monitored if it's assumed I'm doing nothing wrong?"

People are routinely giving up their privacy in the name of 'safety' or some other thing that is on the surface OK. But if you for one second think that it ends with that 'good thing', then you are fooling yourself.

I don't get all bent out of shape over the box in my car, but it boils my blood when I hear somebody say "well if you're not doing anything wrong it doesn't matter". That's the same as "why protest if you've nothing to hide?".

I recommend that you start questioning why you feel it's OK to be monitored in the first place.

Your example is WAY off in left field from what's going on.

In order to be searched law enforcement must have probable cause, you house can't just be randomly searched. If you don't do or deal drugs then they will never have probable cause and thus can never search your house. The black box is covered under the same privacy laws that searching your house falls under. They can't just randomly read it.

[Mutant Racer]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

Because of three things mostly;

- It is really, really hard to be granted access to it unless the owner requests it and even then it is expansive to do. The last estimate I've seen to have one done cost around $8k.

- Black boxes don't record much information and what they do record won't be able to tell you if it is a scam or not. How fast was the driver going, did they hit the brakes, was the seat belt fastened? Things like that which all can be determined without needing to read the black box. It won't tell you was the driver looking at his phone, was he day dreaming, was he changing the song on the radio or was he a victim of the Swoop and Squat which is the most common insurance scam.

- Most insurance scams do not include the death of someone. The only time I've ever seen access granted was if someone died in the accident.

Ahh I figured as much. Thanks Draco!

[sspolo]

Originally Posted by CHMSC

We don't need big brother in our lives anymore than they already are. They listen to our phone calls, check our emails and peek every dam where. Yes they are in most cars but bb is getting ridiculous in what is supposed to be a free county.

Unfortunately, the USA is no longer the land of the free, and I'm positive it will continue to be less and less free as the years go by. All in the name of "Security".

[SnowVert]

You expect more privacy? no problem. Operate your vehicle on your own property at all times and you can have all the privacy you want.

But if you want to operate on Federal/State/County/City owned and maintained roads, it gives them some right in regulating (and monitoring) how you do so.

First off, I highly doubt that they would ever allow a "Random Wireless Monitoring" of these systems so let's not get too worked up. Again, they have been in cars for years and they have yet to try this. Saying that having this is an invasion of privacy would be the same as saying a Police Officer has no right to follow you to watch for violations.

And again, if you want to avoid such "unreasonable scrutiny" it's no problem. Stay off the roads. Sit in your living room and keep your tin foil hat on so the CIA can't read your brain waves. Keep looking out your window for the black helecopters landing in your back yard.

Be reasonable people. Many people on here are LE or Feds and I guarentee they are much more interested in preserving your civil rights than violating them. If they aren't they will screw up and be looking for new jobs eventually.

[Brian 1LE SS]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

And this is where we see things differently.... They are not going to just "random search" your black box.

Are you really that shortsighted? In the begining you are probably right, but our gov loves the slippery slope and will eventually add more features to the black boxes. Like wireless communication. Look at what Onstar already does. It scares me how many people are willing to give up more of their freedom.

[Brian 1LE SS]

Originally Posted by SnowVert

You expect more privacy? no problem. Operate your vehicle on your own property at all times and you can have all the privacy you want.

But if you want to operate on Federal/State/County/City owned and maintained roads, it gives them some right in regulating (and monitoring) how you do so.

First off, I highly doubt that they would ever allow a "Random Wireless Monitoring" of these systems so let's not get too worked up. Again, they have been in cars for years and they have yet to try this. Saying that having this is an invasion of privacy would be the same as saying a Police Officer has no right to follow you to watch for violations.

And again, if you want to avoid such "unreasonable scrutiny" it's no problem. Stay off the roads. Sit in your living room and keep your tin foil hat on so the CIA can't read your brain waves. Keep looking out your window for the black helecopters landing in your back yard.

Be reasonable people. Many people on here are LE or Feds and I guarentee they are much more interested in preserving your civil rights than violating them. If they aren't they will screw up and be looking for new jobs eventually.

Yeh right. Sounds like old Soviet Union would be a better place for you to live in. Cuba is nice too. All you have to do is look into the history of DUI checkpoints to realize how wrong you are.

[upflying]

All this whining about a black box in your car is about 10 years too late. It's a done deal now.
I don't know what kind of car Josh Brent was driving when he killed Jerry Brown but you can bet the police will upload the "black box" data. You don't think they should be able to do this?
http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/...Player.Killed/

[Mutant Racer]

Government can watch me all they like. Tap in to my black box, spy my GPS, listen in on my cell phone, and have Sputnik scan me from outer space. I don't care, all they're gonna find out is I'm a joy riding fool blasting D.R.I. through my crappy Boston speakers at 2am in nowhere Illinois.

I'm kind of excited about the idea to be honest with ya.

[oldfriend]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I don't think you actually can....

"Gary Biller, executive director of the National Motorists Association:

“It’s in the cars, it can’t be turned off, and the information is available to anyone with a court order. Our members ask whether these devices can be disabled, but they can’t, because they are integral to the computer systems that control modern cars.”

We will have to get a roll of aluminum foil and cover the darn thing with double layer

[rykeith]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

Go ahead, my car, my property, I'll just take it out.

Originally Posted by CHMSC

We don't need big brother in our lives anymore than they already are. They listen to our phone calls, check our emails and peek every dam where. Yes they are in most cars but bb is getting ridiculous in what is supposed to be a free county.

Originally Posted by RJTV6A

waiting on the side for the aftermarket to come up with a pigtail that piggyback plugs in and will zap the black box in the event a incident occurred. Effectively erasing all data in the black box that you own inside your own car.

Now if it's leased, rented, company, agency, state or federally owned car the driver might not have any rights as they do not "own" the car.

Originally Posted by Nessal

Safety for liberty....hmmm....where have I heard that one before...

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

This is the wrong attitude. Think about it. You're not dealing drugs are you? Well good, you don;t mind if the police just come in and do a random search do you? You do? Why? if you're not doing anything WRONG, why would you mind?

Now look, I don't mind the black box for the purposes that so many advocates claim- finding out better ways of making cars safer, etc. But I strongly disagree with the way that private citizens are having their actions monitored all the time. It is, in the USA, expected that a private citizen can expect reasonable privacy.

This is why you have legal concerns over say wiretaps.

Now you might say "this is different". No. In concept it is not. if you think it is 'different', then go back to the drug dealing example and read it again. And don;t look at it as "I don't deal drugs". That's not the point. Look at it as "why should I be monitored if it's assumed I'm doing nothing wrong?"

People are routinely giving up their privacy in the name of 'safety' or some other thing that is on the surface OK. But if you for one second think that it ends with that 'good thing', then you are fooling yourself.

I don't get all bent out of shape over the box in my car, but it boils my blood when I hear somebody say "well if you're not doing anything wrong it doesn't matter". That's the same as "why protest if you've nothing to hide?".

I recommend that you start questioning why you feel it's OK to be monitored in the first place.

[CHMSC]

The black box is a mute point since they are already in place. Our civil liberties and freedoms are becoming more restricted due to the security people/government feel we need. It has always been this way. The scales tip back and forth from freedom to security. Before 9/11 our country was a lot more free. After 9/11 there were several laws passed that took away a lot of American freedoms in the name of security for our fellow Americans. Yes in some ways it is good and in others not so much. Everyone has their own view points and opinions which is what still makes this a great country. Whether you agree with that or not is your choice since the government can not take that away from us like many other countries do.