Fast/powerful cars are bad... or so I'm told.

[Sir Nuke]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

I've been in similar conversations... and here is my take...

Freedom.... We have generations of people that have given all to insure we have the freedom to make choices...

These choices are based on personal beliefs, which are derived from our upbringing and our environment, our perceptions and desires....

Answer this for me... Does your boss wear a suit... If so... why... polo shirts or t-shirts or simple button downs are practical... Suits are for show... plain and simple...and it takes more resources to make a suit than it does to make a t-shirt...especially when considering all of the supporting fluff... Cuff links, a matching level watch... expensive ties.... etc... Society deems it the standard that in given situations you dress to a certain level... Why... because of someone elses opinion, or our own desire to fit societal norms... Is a suit practical, or is it the norm...?

Where does this boss live... in an economical/efficiency apartment, or in a nice house, with a yard.... The apt situation is practical... and is less of a drain on personal and environmental resources... The house is more of a drain on personal and environmental resources... So, which is practical....

Is the Camaro practical, regardless of the trim level... Well... Mine averaged over 26 mpg before it was modified, and now still averages over 23 mpg... Its safety rating is as high as the scale goes.... It is comfortable beyond most anything I've ever owned or driven... Wifes thoughts and comments, and she has lower back issues... Yes, arguably there are more practical daily drivers out there... but remember...

LIFE is not all about being practical... If we were a bunch of automatons... maybe... Most of our holidays are not practical... they interrupt work... Weekends are not practical, for the same reasons... Some would argue that they are a time for recovering from the stress of the work week... do they all need to be at the same time... why not stagger break periods so that there is no stoppage or interruption in work...Then if something is promised to be delivered in ten days, it's ten days, not 14 due to there being two weekends thrown in...

Before the flaming begins... These are random arguments and not necessarily my beliefs... they are just food for thought...

Freedom... We have the freedom to choose, and others have the freedom to criticize... turn it around in an intelligent duscussion and see where it goes... There is no reason for it to be heated though... you dont even have to really believe your points, just have them well thought out...

I couldn't have said it better!

[DarkneSS]

I used to drive like a man man and although it was crazy I never caused any accidents or got into any whereas Ive seen tons of accidents caused by cell phones. And not only that, seldom does someone who was racing end up killing anyone else but themselves. Most speed related accidents are due to losing control from pushing the car past its limits.

Manual drivers alone are safer drivers then most zombies that are on the road. And statistics prove manual drivers are safer drivers. When you consider that many people who drive manuals are into modifying cars or are car enthusiasts and that statistics show they are safer then how can someone make an argument against us?

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Having a muscle car is no more a waste than having a big-screen/HDTV/both is.

[SleepWarz]

Yeah but having excessive power gives you the ability to avoid other peoples mistakes. I don`t think clown boy thought of that.

[rez333]

You need to better counter his argument with some of the suggestions in this thread and then report back to us. The house/big-screen-TV/fancy-clothes are excellent parallels.

[ALLTRBO]

Sorry for not replying sooner, I got busy.

I must say that this is exactly the reaction I expected from you guys. It really made me feel better, which was honestly the whole point in posting about it.

Definitely not a communist/socialist, and he's pretty much the opposite of an uptight, pompous ninny, LOL. You'd just have to know him to understand how funny that is.
He's also the opposite of a 'suit and tie' or 'fancy clothes' person (but still in good taste). He owns guns and hunts with them and eats what he kills, hikes and camps up in the mountains, and in fact he walked the Appalachian Trail some years ago (when it was still very challenging).
He drives a typical econo car that gets 35-40mpg highway, and from what I know, his house is practical and with only small TV's and cheap computers, etc. He cooks his own food, doesn't overeat, and rarely ever eats out.
I won't even get into what he thinks about our company, LOL.

Basically, he isn't a hypocrite, and IMHO he's very sensible in most of his ways, he isn't one extreme or the other. Honestly I was surprised when he made the comment about banning high performance cars, or at least making them 99% inaccessible, as it did have an air of tyranny to it.

I agree with most of you guys, and those are the same arguments I did make. Oh, and FWIW, it wasn't a "heated" debate, just an honest debate, albeit one that did make me feel pretty miserable.

His argument against having anything one doesn't "need" is invalid if taken in that context alone, and I think I made that clear by spelling out the points you guys have mentioned above in that regard... he does do things that he doesn't "need" to, of course we all do.

His point on this subject is that there is needless waste, in the form of gasoline, that is caused by high performance cars... when being used for high performance that is... and in the case of the bigger engines like all of ours (yes, even the V6), there is waste all the time, i.e. during idle, acceleration, and cruise. His more emphasized point is that there is no need for high-performance street cars because *actually using* the potential they hold is dangerous for everyone, therefore no one needs what they shouldn't use anyway, so nobody should be allowed to have it.

Therein lies the problem, as many of you have pointed out.
The idea that people shouldn't be allowed to have what they don't actually need does indeed lead straight to dictatorship, which goes against everything I knew about his ideals. That's why I was surprised. Of course, I also never knew that he was so vehemently against pretty much all of the cars I've ever owned and everything I've spent a GREAT deal of blood, sweat, and tears on and put a LOT of heart into over the last 15 years. If I had known that, in the entire previous 2.5 years I've worked with/for him I would have saved myself a lot of breath and the eventual embarrassment.

To continue,
Saying cars kill people is like saying spoons made Rosie O'donnell fat. Saying faster cars automatically alter the drivers' perceptions so that they always drive more dangerously is like saying bigger spoons made Rosie O'donnell even fatter.
That's total horse poop. If there's anyone who can tell you how I consistently drive, it's my wife, and she very clearly stated that I drive the same way in the Civic as I do in the Camaro, with the obvious exception of those relatively few times where it's even possible to use the Camaro to its potential anywhere around here. In other words, with both cars, yes I do drive faster than the average driver, but I am also more courteous then the average driver, and I pay MUCH more attention and have a MUCH better awareness (red-light runners notwithstanding) than the average driver.

I've made my arguments and he's made his and neither of us are going to budge so there's no reason to rehash and "heat up" the debate. I just need to find some way of keeping the "car chat" inside my head again. I've been doing that for a long time now so it shouldn't be too hard.

I appreciate that I can vent my frustrations on here to people who 'get it', it definitely helps sometimes. Thanks camaro5!

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

Yeah but having excessive power gives you the ability to avoid other peoples mistakes. I don`t think clown boy thought of that.

This is true!

About 10 years ago I was driveing my 4th Gen SS and I was stopped at an intersection waiting to go left to get onto a major road. A car across the intersection from me failed to stop and was struck by an oncoming car. The car that failed to stop was thrown straight at me and I reflexively stabbed the gas and dodged the oncoming wreck. I got showered with glass and some other debris, but I was able to use the quick acceleration to avoid the car.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by ALLTRBO

Sorry for not replying sooner, I got busy.

I must say that this is exactly the reaction I expected from you guys. It really made me feel better, which was honestly the whole point in posting about it.

Definitely not a communist/socialist, and he's pretty much the opposite of an uptight, pompous ninny, LOL. You'd just have to know him to understand how funny that is.
He's also the opposite of a 'suit and tie' or 'fancy clothes' person (but still in good taste). He owns guns and hunts with them and eats what he kills, hikes and camps up in the mountains, and in fact he walked the Appalachian Trail some years ago (when it was still very challenging).
He drives a typical econo car that gets 35-40mpg highway, and from what I know, his house is practical and with only small TV's and cheap computers, etc. He cooks his own food, doesn't overeat, and rarely ever eats out.
I won't even get into what he thinks about our company, LOL.

Basically, he isn't a hypocrite, and IMHO he's very sensible in most of his ways, he isn't one extreme or the other. Honestly I was surprised when he made the comment about banning high performance cars, or at least making them 99% inaccessible, as it did have an air of tyranny to it.

I agree with most of you guys, and those are the same arguments I did make. Oh, and FWIW, it wasn't a "heated" debate, just an honest debate, albeit one that did make me feel pretty miserable.

His argument against having anything one doesn't "need" is invalid if taken in that context alone, and I think I made that clear by spelling out the points you guys have mentioned above in that regard... he does do things that he doesn't "need" to, of course we all do.

His point on this subject is that there is needless waste, in the form of gasoline, that is caused by high performance cars... when being used for high performance that is... and in the case of the bigger engines like all of ours (yes, even the V6), there is waste all the time, i.e. during idle, acceleration, and cruise. His more emphasized point is that there is no need for high-performance street cars because *actually using* the potential they hold is dangerous for everyone, therefore no one needs what they shouldn't use anyway, so nobody should be allowed to have it.

Therein lies the problem, as many of you have pointed out.
The idea that people shouldn't be allowed to have what they don't actually need does indeed lead straight to dictatorship, which goes against everything I knew about his ideals. That's why I was surprised. Of course, I also never knew that he was so vehemently against pretty much all of the cars I've ever owned and everything I've spent a GREAT deal of blood, sweat, and tears on and put a LOT of heart into over the last 15 years. If I had known that, in the entire previous 2.5 years I've worked with/for him I would have saved myself a lot of breath and the eventual embarrassment.

To continue,
Saying cars kill people is like saying spoons made Rosie O'donnell fat. Saying faster cars automatically alter the drivers' perceptions so that they always drive more dangerously is like saying bigger spoons made Rosie O'donnell even fatter.
That's total horse poop. If there's anyone who can tell you how I consistently drive, it's my wife, and she very clearly stated that I drive the same way in the Civic as I do in the Camaro, with the obvious exception of those relatively few times where it's even possible to use the Camaro to its potential anywhere around here. In other words, with both cars, yes I do drive faster than the average driver, but I am also more courteous then the average driver, and I pay MUCH more attention and have a MUCH better awareness (red-light runners notwithstanding) than the average driver.

I've made my arguments and he's made his and neither of us are going to budge so there's no reason to rehash and "heat up" the debate. I just need to find some way of keeping the "car chat" inside my head again. I've been doing that for a long time now so it shouldn't be too hard.

I appreciate that I can vent my frustrations on here to people who 'get it', it definitely helps sometimes. Thanks camaro5!

He has MULTIPLE TV sets and COMPUTERS?

Who cares how old or cheap they are. Does he REALLY need more than one of each? Can he really use more than one PC at the same time?

Come to think of it, what's wrong with a RADIO or a BOOK! What business does he have using a TV set?

Plus, them old-school CRT sets use a TON more electricity than a new LED set!

We can pick apart his lifestyle just like he does to you. Remind him that there's ALWAYS someone out there who will find what anyone does as wasteful.

[eolson]

Next people like that will want to put limits on screwing too hard in case someone gets hurt. I am so happy that I was born when I was in 1964.No matter what technological improvements come in the future, fun and spontaneous behavior with true and real contrasts will be outlawed and shunned. How Fu%&ing sad. Your boss should be put to death in a perfect world. Erik

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ALLTRBO

He cooks his own food, doesn't overeat, and rarely ever eats out.

I'm sure he grows his own food, right?

[jandaseve]

so when he goes hunting up the mountains, does he go in his ecnobox? Or does he also have a truck?

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by coolman

Sorry couldn't get through your entire post ,but your boss is an idiot. Sounds like a staunch socialist liberal to me. He should move to England or France.

England is way too good for an anti-car guy... Brits have a serious car crazy culture.

France would probably be better for him, but if he really feels no one should have "more than they realistically require"... Belgium is the place for him to be. (in two months time registration tax for a Camaro V8 will be.... 10k Euro, and that's just for registering it... yearly taxes will rise to around 4-5k).