YOU MUST READ!!!! - Page 3

*Mr. Wyndham* · 08-06-2007, 02:24 AM

Don't ask me, I have no Idea how that works.

Explain how when we send materials to other countrys to be built into parts, then send it to another country to be assembled, then ship it back here to a dealer, then have the dealer sell it so he makes a profit...and yet they're still cheaper then making it all here....

I'll never get it.

*TAG UR IT* · 08-06-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Even though the Camaro and the Challenger are both to be made in Canada, they are still American cars (the province of Ontario produces about as many cars as the state of Michigan). I am not buying a camaro because it is made in Canada, I am going to buy it because it will have amazing power, great looks, is made by GM, and so on.

On a side note, I still don't understand the markup on cars here. Cars manufactured in Canada then exported to the US cost about 20% more here, when don't have to be shipped as far. And the exchange rate is around $0.90-$0.95 right now so that doesn't explain it either

I don't understand why you can't just come to the USA, buy the Camaro and bring it back to Canada. I know you will eventually have to register it there, but how would that work? You can't save cash by doing that?

MerF · 08-06-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

On a side note, I still don't understand the markup on cars here. Cars manufactured in Canada then exported to the US cost about 20% more here, when don't have to be shipped as far. And the exchange rate is around $0.90-$0.95 right now so that doesn't explain it either

I've also wondered about that.

By the way, I only vaugley count Canada as "outsourcing". Canada is just our brother to the north...though it is irresistable to poke fun.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 08-06-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MerF

By the way, I only vaugley count Canada as "outsourcing". Canada is just our brother to the north...though it is irresistable to poke fun.

+1, I've never considered them as outsourcing. I mean, it would be nicer if the plants were here in the US, but Canada is probably just a more convenient location for GM

I have no problem with them building our cars.

*DGthe3* · 08-06-2007, 12:15 PM

I understand why they get made up here, the labour and material costs have been less than those in the US for the same quality of product, our (typically) low dollar is the prime cause for that. Additionally we also have limitless raw materials to make stuff with. BUT shouldn't the cost (excluding taxes) to the buyer be roughly equal? Its not as if we drive on the wrong side of the road or have different quality standards to be met.

AirGoya · 08-06-2007, 12:23 PM

so would it be cheaper if i go to canada and buy the camaro there and bring it back here?

I would def be willing to do that if it was cheaper.

*DGthe3* · 08-06-2007, 12:50 PM

no, just the opposite. a 2007 monte carlo starts at $21 700 with SS at $28 425, those prices are for in the states. In Canada we are paying the equivelent in US dollars of around 24 000 for base and 33 500 for the SS. I picked the monte because it is made at the oshawa plant where the camaro will be made

MerF · 08-06-2007, 01:43 PM

That is pretty shitty. :/

JMROD · 08-07-2007, 03:57 PM

This is an interesting thread and a subject I have great interest in.

I used to wonder why Toyotas and Hondas where "better" cars than US built ones( assuming this was true at least at one point since some poeple here seem to think this was never true) . As a kid I thought "Made in the USA" meant "perfect" (american born w/ foreign born parents). I wondered how the greatest country in the world and the pioneers of the automobile, assemby line..ect can make inferior cars. One reason I thought an american car could be "inferior" is Capitalist greed. I thought it may be corporate America cutting corners and doing what it takes to increase profits and make the already rich CEO, richer. This angered me and made me want to buy foreign. Then a friend gave me a totally different perspective. He said it was the auto unions asking for to much and making it difficult for the companies to produce quality product while still making there empoyees happy to compete with cheap labor foriegn companies(money is going into workers instead of cars). In summary he said, the time of unions have past, they did there job to establish laws for the worker but now are just like any other greedy corrupt orginization. I dont know what the answer is.

I am glad in a way that Toyota and Honda have been giving the big three something to worry about. Competition is always good for the consumer but also good for us "American made" fans because that means we also see our companies become "better" and not take us for granted.

As for the "american made" debate. I work in aerospace with a defense company. There is also a "big three" in the aerospace industry like the auto. One thing I realized as I started here out of college was that its rare for one company to produce the complete product. My companies products (fighter jets, sattelites, battleships...among many) are not as much "designed" by my company but maybe moreso "put together" by the company. It seems companies are now more specialized. YOu have a company that builds acutators and another company that builds Control Units that sell to a company that needs them as part of a bigger picture, a Fighter Jet. I think this is true for the car industry. Even if a car was built by and American company, in the US, for the US, it will still have "made in china" part in it. Maybe the days of companies making 100% of their product themselves are over, at least for complex product like cars and fighter jets. Isnt this part of the "global economy" they say we are moving towards?

I really dont knowthe true reasons or answers. What I do know is that I am happy with the recent turn around that seems to be happening wtih american auto makers. I love the idea of buying an american car that has the high american quality I imagined when I was a kid.

One thing is true we are becoming a service economy(if not already). I think we need to put the right "P" back into our products, pride not just profit.

MerF · 08-07-2007, 04:08 PM

I totally agree with the above post, and I completely agree that the time for the need of the Union is long over and is now just a corrupted force.

*DGthe3* · 08-07-2007, 04:14 PM

Who do you work for? Lockheed?

MerF · 08-07-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Who do you work for? Lockheed?

I was gonna ask that as well.

*raises hand*...I do.

AirGoya · 08-07-2007, 05:53 PM

I also agree with everything in your post JMROD. I have also read about those unions and ill try and find more on that subject.

Another reason why people choose hondas and toyotas is that cars are so complicated and misunderstood that people just hear one thing they believe it and run with it. Like that they last longer and what not.

SSMUFF · 08-07-2007, 06:18 PM

Well most of the posts on here are a nice read. I would agree with most of the post here. I guess what I see is that Americans are way to concerned with there big Tahoe's and McMansions to worry about what is not being done for the future of this country. Honestly I believe you don't need that Hummer or Tahoe to haul around a few kids. I have been to Ireland and spent some time there. You don't see the large SUVS or McMansions. What you see is cars that are MADE there or near there. BMW, Opel, MG, Merc-Benz, and other cars. I saw a few Jeeps and some other big 3 cars but nothing like diversity of cars here in America.

I would really think that a tax reform would be the best thing for US. HAve a consumption tax so that people/car makers pay the hgih ass taxes for producing cars that get 14mpg or less. These large 3000 sf homes that tack a fortune to heat/cool would all disappear if you had a consumption tax.

I paid alittle over $6 US for a gallon of gas there. I also paid $5-7 for a pint of beer. All with tax inculded ranging from 17-22%. There are no tips over there because of the cost is already put into the product. People work 9-5 there and that is it!

Americans and there 24/7 and Unions need to go away for this country to turn around. Oh and get that Bush out of office.

08-06-2007, 02:24 AM	#29
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,873 View My Garage	Don't ask me, I have no Idea how that works. Explain how when we send materials to other countrys to be built into parts, then send it to another country to be assembled, then ship it back here to a dealer, then have the dealer sell it so he makes a profit...and yet they're still cheaper then making it all here.... I'll never get it. __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

08-06-2007, 12:23 PM	#34
AirGoya Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago/Carbondale Posts: 815	so would it be cheaper if i go to canada and buy the camaro there and bring it back here? I would def be willing to do that if it was cheaper. __________________ -Tim

08-07-2007, 05:53 PM	#41
AirGoya Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chicago/Carbondale Posts: 815	I also agree with everything in your post JMROD. I have also read about those unions and ill try and find more on that subject. Another reason why people choose hondas and toyotas is that cars are so complicated and misunderstood that people just hear one thing they believe it and run with it. Like that they last longer and what not. __________________ -Tim

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08-06-2007, 12:15 PM	#33
DGthe3 Moderator.ca Drives: 05 Grand Am GT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Niagara, Canada Posts: 25,366	I understand why they get made up here, the labour and material costs have been less than those in the US for the same quality of product, our (typically) low dollar is the prime cause for that. Additionally we also have limitless raw materials to make stuff with. BUT shouldn't the cost (excluding taxes) to the buyer be roughly equal? Its not as if we drive on the wrong side of the road or have different quality standards to be met.

08-06-2007, 12:50 PM	#35
DGthe3 Moderator.ca Drives: 05 Grand Am GT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Niagara, Canada Posts: 25,366	no, just the opposite. a 2007 monte carlo starts at $21 700 with SS at $28 425, those prices are for in the states. In Canada we are paying the equivelent in US dollars of around 24 000 for base and 33 500 for the SS. I picked the monte because it is made at the oshawa plant where the camaro will be made

08-06-2007, 01:43 PM	#36
MerF Go Rays! Drives: 03 Trailblazer Join Date: May 2007 Location: St Pete, Florida Posts: 2,532	That is pretty shitty. :/

08-07-2007, 03:57 PM	#37
JMROD Drives: 2SS RS ABM "Bumbleblue" Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: So. Cal Posts: 60	This is an interesting thread and a subject I have great interest in. I used to wonder why Toyotas and Hondas where "better" cars than US built ones( assuming this was true at least at one point since some poeple here seem to think this was never true) . As a kid I thought "Made in the USA" meant "perfect" (american born w/ foreign born parents). I wondered how the greatest country in the world and the pioneers of the automobile, assemby line..ect can make inferior cars. One reason I thought an american car could be "inferior" is Capitalist greed. I thought it may be corporate America cutting corners and doing what it takes to increase profits and make the already rich CEO, richer. This angered me and made me want to buy foreign. Then a friend gave me a totally different perspective. He said it was the auto unions asking for to much and making it difficult for the companies to produce quality product while still making there empoyees happy to compete with cheap labor foriegn companies(money is going into workers instead of cars). In summary he said, the time of unions have past, they did there job to establish laws for the worker but now are just like any other greedy corrupt orginization. I dont know what the answer is. I am glad in a way that Toyota and Honda have been giving the big three something to worry about. Competition is always good for the consumer but also good for us "American made" fans because that means we also see our companies become "better" and not take us for granted. As for the "american made" debate. I work in aerospace with a defense company. There is also a "big three" in the aerospace industry like the auto. One thing I realized as I started here out of college was that its rare for one company to produce the complete product. My companies products (fighter jets, sattelites, battleships...among many) are not as much "designed" by my company but maybe moreso "put together" by the company. It seems companies are now more specialized. YOu have a company that builds acutators and another company that builds Control Units that sell to a company that needs them as part of a bigger picture, a Fighter Jet. I think this is true for the car industry. Even if a car was built by and American company, in the US, for the US, it will still have "made in china" part in it. Maybe the days of companies making 100% of their product themselves are over, at least for complex product like cars and fighter jets. Isnt this part of the "global economy" they say we are moving towards? I really dont knowthe true reasons or answers. What I do know is that I am happy with the recent turn around that seems to be happening wtih american auto makers. I love the idea of buying an american car that has the high american quality I imagined when I was a kid. One thing is true we are becoming a service economy(if not already). I think we need to put the right "P" back into our products, pride not just profit.

08-07-2007, 04:08 PM	#38
MerF Go Rays! Drives: 03 Trailblazer Join Date: May 2007 Location: St Pete, Florida Posts: 2,532	I totally agree with the above post, and I completely agree that the time for the need of the Union is long over and is now just a corrupted force.

08-07-2007, 04:14 PM	#39
DGthe3 Moderator.ca Drives: 05 Grand Am GT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Niagara, Canada Posts: 25,366	Who do you work for? Lockheed?

08-07-2007, 06:18 PM	#42
SSMUFF Drives: Jeep Grand Cherokee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 65	Well most of the posts on here are a nice read. I would agree with most of the post here. I guess what I see is that Americans are way to concerned with there big Tahoe's and McMansions to worry about what is not being done for the future of this country. Honestly I believe you don't need that Hummer or Tahoe to haul around a few kids. I have been to Ireland and spent some time there. You don't see the large SUVS or McMansions. What you see is cars that are MADE there or near there. BMW, Opel, MG, Merc-Benz, and other cars. I saw a few Jeeps and some other big 3 cars but nothing like diversity of cars here in America. I would really think that a tax reform would be the best thing for US. HAve a consumption tax so that people/car makers pay the hgih ass taxes for producing cars that get 14mpg or less. These large 3000 sf homes that tack a fortune to heat/cool would all disappear if you had a consumption tax. I paid alittle over $6 US for a gallon of gas there. I also paid $5-7 for a pint of beer. All with tax inculded ranging from 17-22%. There are no tips over there because of the cost is already put into the product. People work 9-5 there and that is it! Americans and there 24/7 and Unions need to go away for this country to turn around. Oh and get that Bush out of office.