2015 Mustang production begins + GT and GT350 news

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Keep in mind the CTS V-sport (420 HP TT V6) weighs in at 4,000 pounds and that is with 4 aluminium doors So simply saying it's on the Alpha architecture doesn't assure anything as far as losing significant weight.

Needs to be more ATS than CTS and from the size of the prototypes, that's likely the case. So smaller alone should weigh less. Being of an architecture that is more efficient than Zeta will also help.

But I'm not confident until we know more details that the Gen6 has a weight advantage over the Mustang.

+100000000

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

Highly unlikely the 6Gen Camaro will eclipse the s550 in sales now that the Mustang will be sold globally.

I'll wait and see how many American made products get sold in Europe and Asia.

China could be the game changer if they want a coupe. But coupes don't sell well there in large numbers.

As Euro as everyone thinks the Mustang is, it remains a pretty big car.

In markets taxed by engine displacement (China is one) or CO, a Mustang GT and Camaro SS are hugely expensive when you add the taxes.

The Mustang will only likely move a reasonable number of 2.0T overseas.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'll wait and see how many American made products get sold in Europe and Asia.

China could be the game changer if they want a coupe. But coupes don't sell well there in large numbers.

As Euro as everyone thinks the Mustang is, it remains a pretty big car.

In markets taxed by engine displacement (China is one) or CO, a Mustang GT and Camaro SS are hugely expensive when you add the taxes.

The Mustang will only likely move a reasonable number of 2.0T overseas.

2.3T

I honestly feel that the overseas sales will be production limited as opposed to customer limited.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Memories

The Camaro was out of production after 2002 until 2010, GM could sell a million Camaro's a year and never catch the Mustang's all time sales lead...If you beleive otherwise your dreaming...

I wouldn't say "never". if Camaro truly sold a million a year, they would catch mustang in about 4 or 5 years. that's assuming mustang stays at their current sales rate.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by LimaCharlie

The Camaro's biggest competition is the Mustang.

Plus, say goodbye to the Camaro's annual sales crown. The Mustang will win for the 2015 model year. 2016 will likely be a different story though with the 6th gen Camaro intro!

I know people like the hot new best thing on the block, but the new mustang is still ass ugly IMO...I feel like sales numbers for 15 will be close, but nothing earth shattering to write home about.

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

I wouldn't say "never". if Camaro truly sold a million a year, they would catch mustang in about 4 or 5 years. that's assuming mustang stays at their current sales rate.

We both know the Camaro will never ever sell 1 million cars a year for 5 or 6 years, hell put the Mustang and Camaro together and they still couldnt do it....

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The Mustang will only likely move a reasonable number of 2.0T overseas.

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

2.3T

And therein lies "the rub". Many export markets TAX the bejeebers out of cars over 2.0L. It's NOT a coincidence that VW-Audi's gas engines are T-2.0, and BMW and M-B are headed in that direction, too...

RHD Mustangs: Japan and Great Britain? Check their engine displacement tax breaks...and the car's size.

What's the Camaro's T-4 displacement, again? Built to ATS Coupe size, which will potentially be more "foreigner-friendly", Camaro or Mustang?

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by LimaCharlie

The Camaro's biggest competition is the Mustang.
Plus, say goodbye to the Camaro's annual sales crown. The Mustang will win for the 2015 model year. 2016 will likely be a different story though with the 6th gen Camaro intro!

Why? do the Camaro has to kiss it's annual sales crown goodbye?

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

How do you know the next Gen Camaro will be lighter? Everyone(on this site) keeps saying that without any proof. Did I miss some news on the next gen Camaro? The Corvette sure as hell is not lighter and by the trends of new generation car builds, they all seem to gain weight. Unless you have some inside info that we don't know about.....

No...I don't have proof. All I have is the large amount of time spent researching these cars, and based on that, I'm saying I'll bet money that the car is lighter. If not...It will be a huge, spectacular, hilarious fail.

Yes...we know the CTS with the Turbo V6 fixins weighs around 4,000 lbs.

But I like to compare base cars, b/c that gives the basic platform you dealing with. From there, we can all make a decent estimate on weight additions for the V8 driveline.

Compare the last gen CTS base car weight to the new car. Keep in mind...the new CTS is larger. The new CTS weighs LESS. Its because of Alpha as we all know. Yeah there might be some expensive materials in there that saved an extra 50 - 100 lbs the Camaro won't get...but the platform is not lighter due solely to expensive lightweight metals. That just part of the equation.

Now I've have read several (well, lets say three) comments from individuals who have seen the 6th gen, and they say it is smaller. So now, the car is smaller, and going on Alpha.....how can it NOT be lighter...if even by 50 - 100 lbs???

How much smaller will the car be. Based on the prototypes running around, this car doesn't appear to be on a CTS sized wheelbase...but is it ATS sized, or somewhere in between. The ATS V6 is basically 300 lbs lighter than the V6 Camaro. Will the Camaro V6 come in at 3,450 lbs like ATs? Maybe not...but I certainly think 3,500 to 3,550 is pretty easily doable.

With all that, and more....I have strong confidence in the 6th gen being lighter.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Q'smuscle

Why? do the Camaro has to kiss it's annual sales crown goodbye?

Its almost a lock that the Camaro will maintain its hold for the 2014 calender year, because with the change-over & subseqent ramp-up for the Mustang (plus the ~6000 unit YTD lead through July the Camaro has). Likewise, the 'new model blitz' of the 2015 Mustang (and 2015 to 2016 changeover for the Camaro) will mean the Mustang will yet again overtake the Camaro for the 2015 calender year. The real question is (and one which we cannot hope to answer right now) is 2016. By then most of the launch-buzz will be over for both cars & they'll live & die on their own merits. I won't even hazard a guess as to which will come out on top right now. Maybe in 6 months, if we've seen the 6th gen by then.

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

No...I don't have proof. All I have is the large amount of time spent researching these cars, and based on that, I'm saying I'll bet money that the car is lighter. If not...It will be a huge, spectacular, hilarious fail.
...

Compare the last gen CTS base car weight to the new car. Keep in mind...the new CTS is larger. The new CTS weighs LESS. Its because of Alpha as we all know. Yeah there might be some expensive materials in there that saved an extra 50 - 100 lbs the Camaro won't get...but the platform is not lighter due solely to expensive lightweight metals. That just part of the equation.

Now I've have read several (well, lets say three) comments from individuals who have seen the 6th gen, and they say it is smaller. So now, the car is smaller, and going on Alpha.....how can it NOT be lighter...if even by 50 - 100 lbs???
.

Thats pretty much my reasoning. The Mustang is up by about 100 lbs. The Camaro should lose at least 50, maybe even 100 (or more). That would put the two cars within about 50 lbs of each other, give or take. I don't know when the last time that happened was, it was certainly before I was even interested in cars. Chevrolet is almost guaranteed to achieve better power-to-weight (even if the 6th gen Camaro didn't lose any weight, the LT1 would allow it to essentially match the new Mustang), and a similar story occurs for the V6s (though it might be a tad different for the 'mid level' turbo4 ... but seriously: who cares?). It will be very interesting.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

And therein lies "the rub". Many export markets TAX the bejeebers out of cars over 2.0L. It's NOT a coincidence that VW-Audi's gas engines are T-2.0, and BMW and M-B are headed in that direction, too...

RHD Mustangs: Japan and Great Britain? Check their engine displacement tax breaks...and the car's size.

What's the Camaro's T-4 displacement, again? Built to ATS Coupe size, which will potentially be more "foreigner-friendly", Camaro or Mustang?

In Germany, vehicles first registered before June 30, 2009 are taxed according to engine displacement and national/European emission class, whereas vehicles which were registered after that date are taxed solely based on CO2 emission in grams per km (g CO2/km).

In Japan, they tax by a 500cc displacement increments, so a 2.0 and a 2.3 would be in the same tax bracket.

In the UK, For cars registered before 1 March 2001 the excise duty is based on engine size (£140 for vehicles with a capacity of less than 1549cc, £225 for vehicles with larger engines). For vehicles registered on or after 1 March 2001 charges are based on theoretical CO2 emission rates per kilometre.

[WHAMMO]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Its almost a lock that the Camaro will maintain its hold for the 2014 calender year, because with the change-over & subseqent ramp-up for the Mustang (plus the ~6000 unit YTD lead through July the Camaro has). Likewise, the 'new model blitz' of the 2015 Mustang (and 2015 to 2016 changeover for the Camaro) will mean the Mustang will yet again overtake the Camaro for the 2015 calender year. The real question is (and one which we cannot hope to answer right now) is 2016. By then most of the launch-buzz will be over for both cars & they'll live & die on their own merits. I won't even hazard a guess as to which will come out on top right now. Maybe in 6 months, if we've seen the 6th gen by then.
Thats pretty much my reasoning. The Mustang is up by about 100 lbs. The Camaro should lose at least 50, maybe even 100 (or more). That would put the two cars within about 50 lbs of each other, give or take. I don't know when the last time that happened was, it was certainly before I was even interested in cars. Chevrolet is almost guaranteed to achieve better power-to-weight (even if the 6th gen Camaro didn't lose any weight, the LT1 would allow it to essentially match the new Mustang), and a similar story occurs for the V6s (though it might be a tad different for the 'mid level' turbo4 ... but seriously: who cares?). It will be very interesting.

I'll second that. WHY EVEN CHANGE CHASSIS TO WEIGHT SAME OR MORE??? There has to be an advantage to that, like freaking weight reduction!! LOL

The 5th chassis is from 2008 LOL I'd guess that 2016 is gonna be an upgrade, like less weight

Like you said, if it weights the same ITS A BIG HUGE FAIL. Has to be 75-100lbs less. Did I talk about the weight?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

In Japan, they tax by a 500cc displacement increments, so a 2.0 and a 2.3 would be in the same tax bracket.

Uh...GM's T-2.0L is a square 86 mm X 86 mm = 1998 cc.

As to CO2 emissions, the "good word" is still "out"...

"One" Ford may need another engine...

[crysalis_01]

Wait, we're talking GM engines? My bad, I assumed we were discussing Ford powerplants. Either way I supposes you do have a point as the current Duratec 2.0EB (which is being phased out despite after only 4yrs and being used in like dozen vehicles) comes in at 1999cc while the 2.3 is like 2250 or there about. However, the new 2.0 EB if I remember correctly is supposed to be just a hair over 2000cc's.