Electric Vehicles

[Realist]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I said for those that can't charge at home. Those folks exist and will continue to exist, especially as it gets harder to find/buy homes (especially detached with parking/garages).

Exactly why EV’s don’t make sense for many if you can’t charge at home. We are also moving towards a society of renters. Hell just a few miles from my place in MI, there are mobile homes (old), old homes, RV trailer park (old and poor) there is no option to charge at home let alone buy a 12yr old EV that needs a battery shortly after purchase of EV. My $53000 total including financing 2024 Canyon AT4 has 33000 miles. 5 trips to Florida, trips hauling items to property in MI over the past 2 years. We sold our home nearly 2 years ago. In a rental townhome with Electric panel in basement far side and probably a few grand to power an EV in garage.
The property in SW MI is a project home so just to run Electric for EV will get in the way and the garage dropped a phase so can’t 220v anything til I run new wires. I can only imagine the charging costs of 33000 miles at pay to charge chargers and lost productivity looking for chargers that work (unless a Tesla) and of course waiting for the charge. Only thing close to my AT4 is a Rivian Pickup and those are $20k more plus. That said I look at EV’s. Hummer pickup or Silverado are good looking to me. Used Model S Plaid I could charge at home would be sweet. Never say never, but ya have to be able to charge at home for it to truly make sense. And the biggest reason why I wasn’t EV is because of the governments hands and the $7500. Now that the incentives for the people that didn’t even need them are gone, they can now backup their words with EV support with more $’s from their wallet/purse.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Realist

Exactly why EV’s don’t make sense for many if you can’t charge at home. We are also moving towards a society of renters. Hell just a few miles from my place in MI, there are mobile homes (old), old homes, RV trailer park (old and poor) there is no option to charge at home let alone buy a 12yr old EV that needs a battery shortly after purchase of EV. My $53000 total including financing 2024 Canyon AT4 has 33000 miles. 5 trips to Florida, trips hauling items to property in MI over the past 2 years. We sold our home nearly 2 years ago. In a rental townhome with Electric panel in basement far side and probably a few grand to power an EV in garage.
The property in SW MI is a project home so just to run Electric for EV will get in the way and the garage dropped a phase so can’t 220v anything til I run new wires. I can only imagine the charging costs of 33000 miles at pay to charge chargers and lost productivity looking for chargers that work (unless a Tesla) and of course waiting for the charge. Only thing close to my AT4 is a Rivian Pickup and those are $20k more plus. That said I look at EV’s. Hummer pickup or Silverado are good looking to me. Used Model S Plaid I could charge at home would be sweet. Never say never, but ya have to be able to charge at home for it to truly make sense. And the biggest reason why I wasn’t EV is because of the governments hands and the $7500. Now that the incentives for the people that didn’t even need them are gone, they can now backup their words with EV support with more $’s from their wallet/purse.

As much as I p!$$ a lot of Camaro6 guys off by explaining how and why EVs are not going away I p!$$ off my EV friends by saying exactly this. My overall point is expect AND not INSTEAD OF. As time moves on EVs will take more market share from ICE but probably won't totally replace ICE in our lifetimes. Been saying that for years.

Thing is though, in roughly 15 - 20 years of development, EVs have in large part surpassed the capability of ICE and continue to A) improve and B) reduce in cost. In 10 years or so moderately priced EVs will be capable of outperforming anything ICE can throw at it. Will they be as much fun to drive? Depends on who's driving it and what they consider fun. Go test drive a Porsche Taycan Turbo S and ask yourself if this is a true performance vehicle.

At the same time, a lot of new apartment developments are being constructed with 240V load capability and companies in the field of public charging development are developing products that can load share and do account attribution. What does that mean? Apartment complexes with garages or banks of parking spots that have keycard control so that tenants that live there can tap a card and have the cost of charging billed directly to their rent. I've already seen the start of this in Canada. Probably more applications underway in Europe, but I'm not close enough to that anymore to know for sure.

[snizzle]

Yup, much of what you detail there is at best future state however. To your point, I agree it'll get better and BEV market share will continue to increase as the ecosystem around it improves. We have to remember that most folks just want a basic reliable vehicle that doesn't inconvenience them. Being fun to drive (why many of us own Camaros), really isn't a consideration.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Exactly. These people believe Americans are too stupid to update our infrastructure and we are dooming ourselves to rolling blackouts. Nobody has less faith in American ingenuity than people who oppose EVs.

Then there are other people that believe some Americans will (stupidly) regulate themselves into inefficient high priced green energy sources and emissions standards that have no meaningful impact on the environment but drive consumers to very expensive alternatives.

But, I have faith in American ingenuity to circumvent this dystopian regulatory environment. Call it a "lack of faith" that we'll endeavor to comply with it, if you'd like. Again, I'm all for EVs taking over the marketplace without subsidies or regulation driving consumer choices.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Thing is though, in roughly 15 - 20 years of development, EVs have in large part surpassed the capability of ICE and continue to A) improve and B) reduce in cost. In 10 years or so moderately priced EVs will be capable of outperforming anything ICE can throw at it. .

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...electric-cars/

I'd say more like 100 years of development, only with the recent implementation of expensive rare earth minerals was any real progress made.

[Martinjlm]

If this is true some Mopar boys are gonna have to by kept away from sharp objects...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2029...ow-future-cars

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

If this is true some Mopar boys are gonna have to by kept away from sharp objects...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2029...ow-future-cars

Estimated Price $65,000

So, no lessons learned from trying to sell $110,000 Grand Wagoneers?

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Capricio

So, no lessons learned from trying to sell $110,000 Grand Wagoneers?

I'm calling bs on the article 1) well because it's Motortrend. They are the National Enquirer of the automotive world. They still claim they know that a 2027 7th gen Camaro is coming out later this year . And 2) There is not a single independent reporting on it other than Motortrend. Every article found is either from Motortrend or contains a link to Motortrend for the information.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

I'm calling bs on the article 1) well because it's Motortrend. They are the National Enquirer of the automotive world. They still claim they know that a 2027 7th gen Camaro is coming out later this year . And 2) There is not a single independent reporting on it other than Motortrend. Every article found is either from Motortrend or contains a link to Motortrend for the information.

All very good points. I will say that S&P Global Mobility has been showing a 300 replacement coming in 2028 for quite some time now, but it's been a while since I've seen the actual forecasts. I retired from there in November so I don't have direct access anymore.

[90503]

Gotta put in my $.02...What is happening here, including my very own neighborhood, is the prolific construction of adus in traditional single family home areas. These not only remove off street parking, but actually reward the elimination of accomodating vehicles completely, ICE or EV.

ADUs, codes to satisfy state mandated housing "crisis" plans, new apartments, high rise dwellings, are NOT vehicle friendly, or incentivized to include any auto parking, much less any EV charging.

Vehicle ownership of any type is being systematically discouraged in favor of promoting public mass transit.

Don't expect future apartments to be ev or car friendly. They won't be. Charge at home sounds great and in my opinion has passed its peak. But the winds of change signal no solution that would increase EV ownership or ease of charging.

I've said it for years, they want you to take the bus, like it or not.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by 90503

I've said it for years, they want you to take the bus, like it or not.

https://youtu.be/tZkouut-9RQ?si=laOteAWn6qKK47p4

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

As much as I p!$$ a lot of Camaro6 guys off by explaining how and why EVs are not going away I p!$$ off my EV friends by saying exactly this. My overall point is expect AND not INSTEAD OF. As time moves on EVs will take more market share from ICE but probably won't totally replace ICE in our lifetimes. Been saying that for years.

Thing is though, in roughly 15 - 20 years of development, EVs have in large part surpassed the capability of ICE and continue to A) improve and B) reduce in cost. In 10 years or so moderately priced EVs will be capable of outperforming anything ICE can throw at it. Will they be as much fun to drive? Depends on who's driving it and what they consider fun. Go test drive a Porsche Taycan Turbo S and ask yourself if this is a true performance vehicle.

At the same time, a lot of new apartment developments are being constructed with 240V load capability and companies in the field of public charging development are developing products that can load share and do account attribution. What does that mean? Apartment complexes with garages or banks of parking spots that have keycard control so that tenants that live there can tap a card and have the cost of charging billed directly to their rent. I've already seen the start of this in Canada. Probably more applications underway in Europe, but I'm not close enough to that anymore to know for sure.

An example of what I was talking about...

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

An example of what I was talking about...

Looks like a good idea and a nice little gesture, but also given human nature, fraught with issues and expense that property owners and managers will want to avoid like the plague. Non EV renters will want to know whats in it for them, etc., etc..

Likely response from management will be "please take your EV to a public charging station, pay and charge there".

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Looks like a good idea and a nice little gesture, but also given human nature, fraught with issues and expense that property owners and managers will want to avoid like the plague. Non EV renters will want to know whats in it for them, etc., etc..

Likely response from management will be "please take your EV to a public charging station, pay and charge there".

There's nothing in it for non-EV owners and it also costs them nothing. It's just like if an apartment complex has a coin operated laundry room and some tenants have their own washer and dryer. Those who want to use the facility's washer / dryer / EV charger can do so. Those who don't bear no additional cost.

The apartment owners benefit by getting a cut of the proceeds from charging as well as broadening their addressable market to include people who already have or are considering acquiring an EV.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by 90503

Gotta put in my $.02...What is happening here, including my very own neighborhood, is the prolific construction of adus in traditional single family home areas. These not only remove off street parking, but actually reward the elimination of accomodating vehicles completely, ICE or EV.

ADUs, codes to satisfy state mandated housing "crisis" plans, new apartments, high rise dwellings, are NOT vehicle friendly, or incentivized to include any auto parking, much less any EV charging.

Vehicle ownership of any type is being systematically discouraged in favor of promoting public mass transit.

Don't expect future apartments to be ev or car friendly. They won't be. Charge at home sounds great and in my opinion has passed its peak. But the winds of change signal no solution that would increase EV ownership or ease of charging.

I've said it for years, they want you to take the bus, like it or not.

That is a very impossible feat in the majority of my area which has a population of 2.3 million in the metro area.