The BEST Break for a new car. "very long"

[duder4thgen]

I posted something like this in another thread, but I would be really, really suprised to see any proven hp gain of statistical significance from breaking in an engine hard.

Rings and cylinders are made so exact now days that the engine is broke in by the time you lay eyes on it at the dealer. If you do a hard break in all you're doing is putting additional stress on other components (clutch, auto and manual transmission, differential) that DO need an easy break-in.

This article has alot of good info-

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/enginebreakin.htm

Introduction
There are many different opinions on how to break in an engine. Some people say to run it hard to get the engine piston rings to seat, some people say to keep turbo engine under boost to get the rings to seat. My opinions on this page are the same general advice from automotive engineers and are the same instructions in your owner's manual from the people who built your car. It's ultimately your engine and your car, so like any other internet advice, take it with a grain of salt and figure it out for yourself.

"Run it hard from hour 0" is wrong - here's why

The "run it hard" opinion hit a resurgence with a website from an air cooled motorcycle mechanic who did no engineering study or large scale sampling. Plainly put, roughly honed 2-stroke dirt bike engines that see more expansion because they are air cooled are not the same as the micro finished water cooled car engines which see more regular heat cycles and expansion. Your water cooled Volkswagen TDI engine designed to last many, many miles is not a short life race motorcycle, aircraft, boat outboard, or air cooled classic VW engine.

Engine break in goals are proper heat cycling, mating of parts, and stress reliving accomplished by incremental increases in varying rpm and load. You want to avoid excess engine wear, idling longer than you normally would, and high load on a cold engine. Let's look at the various parts of an engine and drivetrain to see how they are affected.

A component by component examination of engine break in

Clutch - Let's start with something that no one disputes. Everyone will tell you that the clutch should be driven in moderate stop and go conditions for the first 500 miles with no excessive slipping. This transfers a layer of bedding material on the clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate, and prevents glazing that is associated with excessive heat and slipping. Holding the car on an incline using the clutch is really bad for a stock clutch and should not be done even after break in unless you want a glazed clutch. This wears the clutch disc and creates even more excess heat and "hot spots". Since the outer diameter of a clutch and flywheel disc travels more distance in one rotation than the inner diameter (because it is farther from the center and travels in a larger circle), the disc could, in extreme cases such as drag racing, promote warping and create an uneven friction surface. See 1000q: clutch FAQ for details on the TDI clutch/flywheel. On a side note, aftermarket stronger clutch kits/pressure plates could result in more crankshaft thrust bearing wear. Check the above article for an explanation.

Engine crankshaft and main bearings, cylinder head - these are precision machined and/or polished parts and require no special break in other than stress relieving through heat cycling associated with the rest of a normal engine break in (varying rpm/load, etc.) There is not much controversy here either.

Turbo seals and bearings - The journal bearing turbos in your TDI float on a layer of pressurized oil. The turbo wheels can spin at speeds beyond 100,000 rpm and although it's spinning pretty fast at engine idle, it's still slower than if you're racing the engine. There is some variation in turbos because early TDI are conventional fixed geometry and later TDI are variable vane turbos. All new TDI are variable vane turbos. See 1000q: turbocharging and the TDI for more details.

Engine pistons and rings - this is the major source of controversy. First ask yourself how many correctly maintained and operated water cooled car engines (excluding engines with known build quality issues) are replaced because of cylinder glazing and oil consumption related to engine break in?

An engine sees compressed air during the compression stroke. During combustion, the pressures get much higher as the fuel burns. Diesel engines see much higher pressures than gasoline engines. For example, a diesel engine can see 2000 psi peak combustion pressure vs. 1000-1700 psi for a gasoline engine. Running the engine hard when cold, even after engine break in, creates excessive blow by because the combustion pressures are able to push past the piston rings and cylinders before they seat properly. The piston rings seal the piston to the engine cylinder. Engine pistons are not perfect round cylinders when cold because they compensate and expand when warm. Turbo pistons are also designed to account for the higher pressures of turbocharging. All engines benefit from a gradual, normal warm up. Before the engine is warmed up and broken in, the pressures of combustion will push past the piston rings more than a fully broken in and warmed up engine. This reduces engine efficiency, power, and fuel mileage but will improve as the engine is broken in and seals better. Because of the greater pressures, it's normal for a diesel to have a more piston blow-by than a gasoline car even after the engine is broken in.

From hour 0, the rings and freshly honed cylinder walls will scrape against each other and begin break in by wearing into each other. The friction of the rings against the cylinder walls will also help heat cycle the rings. Just remember that the car you buy off the showroom floor has already had it's engine tested, installed and driven around the factory, on and off a truck or ship, and around the dealership. Some high performance cars are even driven hard on a track at the factory for quality control. Sometimes, a bad transporter or joyriding dealer will "break in the tires" on the dealer prep test drive. In other words, your new car's engine isn't a true hour 0 engine.

From hour 0 (again, hour 0 is a brand new or rebuilt engine) you want to begin incremental increases in heat cycling, load, and rpm. The reason why you want to avoid moderate and high load/rpm operation from hour 0 is because this sudden increase generates excessive blow by and oil glazing. This excessive blow also causes unnecessary oil contamination.

It's normal for a light coat of oil to be present on the cylinder walls, even more so during engine break in. Excess heat generated by high rpm/load can cause this oil to flash burn and glaze. During engine break in, glazing can create generates hot spots where the rings are not yet seated evenly. This glaze is very smooth and prevents proper ring and cylinder break in. Excessive idling and "babying" the engine consistently could also create the same problem. Remember the section above where I wrote "the truth is somewhere in the middle"? I believe that the best engine break in is a moderate break in - not hard and not easy. Just follow the owner's manual written by the people who made your car.

Also check your owner's manual to see what engine oil you should use. All TDI and many modern engines call for synthetic oil (ever see oil sludge in a VW/Audi - not pretty). If an oil sludge problem develops from not using synthetic oil is it an engine design/build problem, an engine break in problem, or owner maintenance-oil change problem?

In the end, remember that anecdotal evidence or small sample sizes do not make a break in method right or wrong. We would all like to believe that individuals hold some special power over their cars that will result in a perfect break in and the best car. The truth is that different cars of the same model will have some engine and powertrain variation, even if everything else is equal. Some cars are lemons, some come off the assembly line perfectly. If you still believe in the "hard break in" method, read this MotorTrend article which gets the advice of multiple automotive engineers from Ford, Honda, and GM who all say that the run it hard from hour 0 method is wrong.

Here is the MotorTrend article-

http://www.motortrend.com/features/e...nce/index.html

Technologue: Break-In, Schmake-In
Spare the whip and spoil the engine?
August 15, 2006 / By Frank Markus / Photography by Lionel DeluyI vividly remember the first weeks spent driving my one and only brand spanking new car. It was a 1986 Dodge Lancer Turbo five-speed that I custom-ordered with all the futuristic kit: digital gauges, trip computer, and the "a-door-is-a-jar" lady. I took delivery with only a single "2" glowing in the odometer and babied it for the recommended break-in period. The magic number (600 miles) blinked as I eased up to a stop sign. To celebrate its matriculation to automotive adulthood, I launched with a wide-open-throttle clutch-drop wheel-hop flourish. That 2.2-liter turbo ran like a German train for the next 150,000 miles without burning oil.

So you can imagine how my eyebrows arched as I recently read a Web site advocating a radical break-in procedure that involves lots of big throttle openings within the first 20 miles of operation in order to boost performance and improve durability.

Motoman's logic (mototuneusa.com) is hard to dispute. He notes that machine tools leave ridges and peaks in new or freshly honed cylinder bores, and the piston rings polish them off while conforming to the precise shape of the cylinder. He asserts that at light throttle openings there's insufficient cylinder pressure to force the rings out into full contact with the cylinder wall, which leads to uneven wear that allows exhaust to blow by the rings and contaminate the oil. The site suggests that improved compression can boost power by between two and 10 percent.

Motoman claims his procedure works on all four-stroke engines, though he admits that most of the 300 engines he's tested power air-cooled motorcycles and snowmobiles. Could beating on a brand-new car engine boost its performance? Are manufacturers simply hesitant to recommend a full-throttle break-in out of fear of drivers exceeding speed limits?

For answers, I rang up long-time GM engine guru Dave Lancaster, and he agrees that in smaller, low-cost air-cooled engines (which expand and contract more as temperatures change) such a technique might indeed pay off. But the microfinished bores, high-tension rings, and precision-build tolerances in today's automotive engines yield excellent ring sealing from new, so any change in power output attributable to such a radical procedure would be miniscule if measurable at all. He notes that power and fuel economy generally improve throughout the break-in period as friction diminishes in all moving parts. Ford's engine durability specialist Mike Herr concurs with all the above as do the engine R&D experts at Honda.

Motoman counters by arguing that the fine machining and high-precision build quality of modern engines serve only to shorten the window of opportunity to "seat the rings," making it even more important to do the heavy-duty accels right off the bat. But if his procedure works, why don't manufacturers perform it in the plant on a dyno, especially on performance engines like the handbuilt Corvette LS7 and supercharged Northstar? They would, but Lancaster and Herr confirm the only engines that get such treatment are those undergoing torture-testing during development to ensure that the Motomans of the world won't ring up big warranty claims.

My final problem with these Web claims is that they seem unverifiable. Since no two engines--especially smaller, cheaper ones--produce equivalent power fresh off the assembly line, it's impossible to attribute small performance differences to a break-in procedure. So it's your choice: Follow your owner's manual recommendations (which usually entail gentle driving at varying engine speeds and no towing for between 300 and 1000 miles); or pursue Web logic in hopes of gaining a racer's edge of added performance.

[Hemlawk]

I just found this website. It's for breaking in a racing bike, but the info is relevent.

http://www.miatapower.com/engine-break-in.htm

I know it might have been asked, but what about the Auto v6? shift to neutral after a run?

[Nice SS]

This is for Darin Morgan...just wondering if ur going to the get together in Abel GA in April...if so what would be the best way to find you there..do you have a booth or what.

thanks for your time

[maximus7969]

just punch it

[Darin Morgan]

I have to say that I am stunned at the level of ignorance from some people on this forum. Those who have never built race engine or even a street engine in their lives post their uneducated opinions about a subject matter they have ZERO experience with and know nothing about. Actually the majority of the negative posts regarding this break in procedure are from the most ignorant and inexperienced. I showed some of my engine building buddies this thread and they could only read about half of it before they got sick and quit. The posts that really got me was individuals stating something like this,

“This is not a racing engine it shouldn’t be broke in like one.”

Or worse yet,

” Racing engines are different this is a street engine and the factory engines of today are built to more exact tolerances”.

PLEASE! You have to be joking. That’s ignorance of the highest level! To say that a street engine is built to more exacting tolerances than a 150K racing engine is just stupid. So using this rational, you're stating that an engine built to a higher tolerance should not be broke in using this method? Well a racing engine is built the HIGHEST standards in the world. Standards the factory could not dream of meeting so why are racing engines broke in this way? Because it’s the correct way to do it, that’s why. It does not matter if it’s a street engine, racing engine or a Briggs and Stratton on a go cart. You break them in the same way. I have decades and millions of dollars of research under my belt. I have worked on, built and researched some of the world’s fastest and most powerful engines. I know what I am talking about. You don’t. To say other wise just proves your ignorance and inexperience. If you're going to post negative opinions about this method please post your engine building accomplishments, world records, track records or any records so we can tell if the person posting is just talking out there a$$ or actually has a valid point.

I have seen this work on THOUSANDS of engines. The proof is in the data obtained over almost three decades of engine building and development. To say that these engine are different is wrong.

[Moriartii]

But but but Darin the "owners manual says".................
Sorry dude I had to be a smartass there for I agree with your post and every time I hear the "owners manual says" I wanna barf.
Cheers
K

[Angrybird 12]

when it starts getting insulting it's time to close this thread, everythig has already been said over and over again...

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

when it starts getting insulting it's time to close this thread, everythig has already been said over and over again...

Your correct. I was somewhat insulting. No more insulting than inexperienced people calling hundreds of the best engine builders in the world idiots because we dont follow what the owners manual said. Every single professional engine builder I know uses this method for every type of engine imaginable. Every single one. Its insulting to have people who know absolutely ZERO about engineering racing engines or any engine for that matter stating misinformation about topics they have never researched for themselves.

Yes, it was strong. maybe a bit to strong but I think it may just make some people think before blurting out anything that comes to mind just because they "think" its the right thing to do. I am saying, do the research yourself.

[the rich dude]

Well said Darin!! Could you please hit me up with a PM. I have a "real" engine building question for ya About ring gaps. I've built many engines with going by every ring manufacturers specs and there is a million different ways of doing it but was wondering what gaps you have found the most success with. Thanks bud!!

[Fuzion]

Ok everyone, Here's the deal LOL. I had a special custom flatbed take my car from the deliver to my garage. she's been sitting there ever since. 0 miles. I'm to afraid to drive her..

Why? you ask.

Even tho the manual says.. Don't go over 4k RPM. Don't mash the gas don't do this don't do that..

What truly is the right way to break in your engine?

This guy with stock in the video section 12.6 seconds 1/4th Stock camaro. Like ..WOW!. Someone said that this is what happens when you break your engine in correctly.. Now i'm wondering.. How?!

It's winter time so she's going to sit there until summer but Still I'd like to break her in before summer! LOL

2010 2SS RS PACKAGE Black/RedStripe Camaro Ground effects kit Automatic..


I've got a heavy foot, PBA/Badge and a Cop Radar/Jammer. I'm ready for what needs to be done

[MrRaZ28]

First: Search is your friend. However, since I'm a nice guy, I'll help you out:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...t=engine+break

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

You should Google some sites offering up opinions on breaking in racing motorcycle engines... then assume if it works for them it would work for you. [/sarcasm]

[PQ]

Ask a hundred people. Get a bunch of diffent answers. I for one babied mine like the manual says and wished I didn't.

[armysig]

Follow that break to the letter! I have and there are no regrets on my part. I have had several people comment on how my engine responds.