2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by ihaveacamaro

Coming from a Camaro guy

Lighten up bro, coming from a mustang owner, what you own doesn't mean you're this or that. Let's all agree not to poorly portray the other car.

I'm not speaking for everybody but in general, those with any real dialogue haven't bashed the zl1. I've most recently been talking about how I think stability this and traction that with electronic control this and active that aren't what muscle cars are about and that a muscle car shouldn't be bashed if it drives aggressively without those things on. It bothers me that reviewers and people are quick to say the mustang is just a drift rat shit box simply because it takes skill to drive it without electronic nannies on. Go drive the zl1 with that stuff off and I bet it'll be a lot more fun but messier, maybe slower and require more skill. It won't be an axe murder unless you add another 100hp, but you won't simply be wot throttle at 50mph just at an apex as if you're in a 15hp go cart. And thats not a bad thing. It means you have to know and learn how to drive your car!!! Heaven forbid we as modern car people dont forget how to be tidy and tactile without electronic nannies doing it for us.

I've been bringing this up for lowdown to see that its probably a good idea to quit being all up in arms because a 660hp car without electronic nannies on is labeled as a handful by testers. It doesn't mean it's drifting, it means the car obviously takes time to learn and tame because it makes tons of power. Once learned, it can be really fast and probably throw down a boat load of hero laps with an experienced driver. it traps damn near 130 in the 1/4 mile!! It should not be a cake walk; that's just inherent nature when stepping into a high horse car, you have to be on your a game to tame it and that's whats fun about the car.

I'm just tired of the argument that it's a rubbish car since it takes skill and talent to control it for hero laps. Isn't that what muscle cars have always been?

If the argument's that when the mustang has all its stuff off, it drives like a scary axe murderer, then tell me how any 660hp car should feel without those electronic nannies. Don't compare that feeling to a heaviee car with 580hp that still has electronic modes on because your comparing apples to oranges. If you drive a stock 1998 c5 corvette, it'll feel really balanced and very grippy even with traction and stability off. Go throw another 100hp at it and it'll be pretty balanced still but need skill to keep it straight. It'll be a 120mph quarter mile car in this trim. So is the zl1. Now throw another 80hp at this vette. It still handles/grips just as good as it ever did at part throttle but now it's a 125-128mph car in the quarter mile. With stability and traction control off, it'll be a grippy axe murderer similar to the gt500. This doesn't mean it's a drift car, or rubbish, it just means its a bullet car you have to respect and be precise/responsible/careful with. You have to drive this kind of car. It's not rubbish, it's a car that takes skill.

Turn all that stuff off and really enjoy these cars when it's safe to do so like being on a closed race track. If driving a car dies off and fades into driving with electronic nannies and traction this with safety that, I think a great part of car culture will be officially dead.

I'm glad the stuff can be turned off in the zl1 and gt500. May this always be the case so that everyone can drive as they'd like be it faster or slower.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

I don't see where anyone has called the Shelby a "piece of junk" or "rubbish", here, but there are all manner of folks on Ford sites calling out the Camaro and its team.

The ZL1, by the way it's being built and equipped, has a decided "ride and handling" mission with plenty of power, while the GT 500 has been built with a strong mission to rule drag strips and top speed challenges with its over-the-top power. Order up the two packages, and the GT 500's handling mission improves.

They are like two of the 31 flavors at Baskin Robbins. The same, only different.

Any vehicle with tremendous power is more difficult to drive, particularly to its limits. Less overall power, with more neutral handling, is likely to be "easier" to drive in any style or manner by most anyone. Over-the-top power requires over-the-top driver capabilities and familiarity on a road course.

Electronic intervention, these days, is mandated. All vehicles have it. It's not a bad thing; it's simply a requirement. Both have "electronic assistance". Each performs its job somewhat differently.

The Camaro seems to reward smooth driving, while the Mustang apparently requires more tossing and throttle inputs. Which is "easier"? No doubt, the Camaro, for those accustomed to a more conventional way of negotiating curves in a decent-handling sporty car. The Mustang, according to the latest review, is much more difficult to lap consistently and therefore has a wider range of lap times.

Two different flavors.

[devildog1679]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Lighten up bro, coming from a mustang owner, what you own doesn't mean you're this or that. Let's all agree not to poorly portray the other car.

I'm not speaking for everybody but in general, those with any real dialogue haven't bashed the zl1. I've most recently been talking about how I think stability this and traction that with electronic control this and active that aren't what muscle cars are about and that a muscle car shouldn't be bashed if it drives aggressively without those things on. It bothers me that reviewers and people are quick to say the mustang is just a drift rat shit box simply because it takes skill to drive it without electronic nannies on. Go drive the zl1 with that stuff off and I bet it'll be a lot more fun but messier, maybe slower and require more skill. It won't be an axe murder unless you add another 100hp, but you won't simply be wot throttle at 50mph just at an apex as if you're in a 15hp go cart. And thats not a bad thing. It means you have to know and learn how to drive your car!!! Heaven forbid we as modern car people dont forget how to be tidy and tactile without electronic nannies doing it for us.

I've been bringing this up for lowdown to see that its probably a good idea to quit being all up in arms because a 660hp car without electronic nannies on is labeled as a handful by testers. It doesn't mean it's drifting, it means the car obviously takes time to learn and tame because it makes tons of power. Once learned, it can be really fast and probably throw down a boat load of hero laps with an experienced driver. it traps damn near 130 in the 1/4 mile!! It should not be a cake walk; that's just inherent nature when stepping into a high horse car, you have to be on your a game to tame it and that's whats fun about the car.

I'm just tired of the argument that it's a rubbish car since it takes skill and talent to control it for hero laps. Isn't that what muscle cars have always been?

If the argument's that when the mustang has all its stuff off, it drives like a scary axe murderer, then tell me how any 660hp car should feel without those electronic nannies. Don't compare that feeling to a heaviee car with 580hp that still has electronic modes on because your comparing apples to oranges. If you drive a stock 1998 c5 corvette, it'll feel really balanced and very grippy even with traction and stability off. Go throw another 100hp at it and it'll be pretty balanced still but need skill to keep it straight. It'll be a 120mph quarter mile car in this trim. So is the zl1. Now throw another 80hp at this vette. It still handles/grips just as good as it ever did at part throttle but now it's a 125-128mph car in the quarter mile. With stability and traction control off, it'll be a grippy axe murderer similar to the gt500. This doesn't mean it's a drift car, or rubbish, it just means its a bullet car you have to respect and be precise/responsible/careful with. You have to drive this kind of car. It's not rubbish, it's a car that takes skill.

Turn all that stuff off and really enjoy these cars when it's safe to do so like being on a closed race track. If driving a car dies off and fades into driving with electronic nannies and traction this with safety that, I think a great part of car culture will be officially dead.

I'm glad the stuff can be turned off in the zl1 and gt500. May this always be the case so that everyone can drive as they'd like be it faster or slower.

Well said

[tooslow]

So given all this discussion, is it appropriate to declare the ZL1 with its better ride and "easier to drive" qualities as a "secretary's car" and the GT500 as a "man's" car? I think so.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by tooslow

So given all this discussion, is it appropriate to declare the ZL1 with its better ride and "easier to drive" qualities as a "secretary's car" and the GT500 as a "man's" car? I think so.

No I won't go close to that far. I'd say one is like Mario Andretti and the other is like parnelli jones. Both very quick, but different styles. Both are as badass as they come.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

No I won't go close to that far. I'd say one is like Mario Andretti and the other is like parnelli jones. Both very quick, but different styles. Both are as badass as they come.

Thanks, but I like my description better.

[Truck Norris]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Lighten up bro, coming from a mustang owner, what you own doesn't mean you're this or that. Let's all agree not to poorly portray the other car.

I'm not speaking for everybody but in general, those with any real dialogue haven't bashed the zl1. I've most recently been talking about how I think stability this and traction that with electronic control this and active that aren't what muscle cars are about and that a muscle car shouldn't be bashed if it drives aggressively without those things on. It bothers me that reviewers and people are quick to say the mustang is just a drift rat shit box simply because it takes skill to drive it without electronic nannies on. Go drive the zl1 with that stuff off and I bet it'll be a lot more fun but messier, maybe slower and require more skill. It won't be an axe murder unless you add another 100hp, but you won't simply be wot throttle at 50mph just at an apex as if you're in a 15hp go cart. And thats not a bad thing. It means you have to know and learn how to drive your car!!! Heaven forbid we as modern car people dont forget how to be tidy and tactile without electronic nannies doing it for us.

I've been bringing this up for lowdown to see that its probably a good idea to quit being all up in arms because a 660hp car without electronic nannies on is labeled as a handful by testers. It doesn't mean it's drifting, it means the car obviously takes time to learn and tame because it makes tons of power. Once learned, it can be really fast and probably throw down a boat load of hero laps with an experienced driver. it traps damn near 130 in the 1/4 mile!! It should not be a cake walk; that's just inherent nature when stepping into a high horse car, you have to be on your a game to tame it and that's whats fun about the car.

I'm just tired of the argument that it's a rubbish car since it takes skill and talent to control it for hero laps. Isn't that what muscle cars have always been?

If the argument's that when the mustang has all its stuff off, it drives like a scary axe murderer, then tell me how any 660hp car should feel without those electronic nannies. Don't compare that feeling to a heaviee car with 580hp that still has electronic modes on because your comparing apples to oranges. If you drive a stock 1998 c5 corvette, it'll feel really balanced and very grippy even with traction and stability off. Go throw another 100hp at it and it'll be pretty balanced still but need skill to keep it straight. It'll be a 120mph quarter mile car in this trim. So is the zl1. Now throw another 80hp at this vette. It still handles/grips just as good as it ever did at part throttle but now it's a 125-128mph car in the quarter mile. With stability and traction control off, it'll be a grippy axe murderer similar to the gt500. This doesn't mean it's a drift car, or rubbish, it just means its a bullet car you have to respect and be precise/responsible/careful with. You have to drive this kind of car. It's not rubbish, it's a car that takes skill.

Turn all that stuff off and really enjoy these cars when it's safe to do so like being on a closed race track. If driving a car dies off and fades into driving with electronic nannies and traction this with safety that, I think a great part of car culture will be officially dead.

I'm glad the stuff can be turned off in the zl1 and gt500. May this always be the case so that everyone can drive as they'd like be it faster or slower.

Reminds me of Randy Pobst ZR1 post lap interview. I bet he will have very similar things to say about the GT500 when he reports on its performance at Laguna Seca in a few days but will interpreted here as negative vs favorable for the ZR1

[72MachOne99GT]

I don't know about you guys, but how can you listen to the video from the second he gets out of the car and NOT smile the ENTIRE time?

Just skip to 2:42ish, turn up the volume and freaking SMILE!

[eolson]

I agree, you are having Pobst say the exact thing about the ZR1 as is being said about the 2013 GT500, and he is saying the same thing about the top Audi as is being said about the ZL1.

Same exact discussion about the Z06 vs. the GTR as well, or the Viper vs. the GTR


The interesting thing for me is initially seeing what the big 3 mags report as their exact times and MPH on the slalom and the figure 8 with the measuring equipment. These stats usually vary from mag to mag, and it will be interesting to average them.

It will be great to see the lap to lap comparison's. I agree with above, the ZR1 is talked about as being challenging and very powerful and scary to drive, but he never straight out insults it for being an un balanced Corvette, but the GT500 will always be put down for the exact same attributes of power as being inferior.

Pobst never dared say that the Audi was "superior" to the mighty ZR1 or better, but just wait for how they'll talk about the 2013 GT500 even if it has a slightly faster time on a lap. The words "better" or "superior" are already present in the reviews. Typical, Erik

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Wait no longer. Let Randy have his say:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1yzdT5oQm

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

Wait no longer. Let Randy have his say:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1yzdT5oQm

He said what everyone already knows or at least heard through IL.

The GT500 is the faster car.
The ZL1 is the more compliant car.

[tt335ci03cobra]

The brakes sound like a major hang up. Some carbon race pads and dot4 should be put on right away.

Thats modding, just like royal purple or ngk spark plugs are, but at least they are simple mods that ultimately would easily be doable as maintenance alone dictates brake/plug/oil changes.

I think a zl1 or 2013 gt500 with those changes and some 285/325 nitto nt05's would be very balanced monsters. I'd love to see the two square off in that trim since its arguably more likely what they'd be setup as by enthusiasts; maybe spare the tires of course.

[tt335ci03cobra]

* maybe, probably excluding the tires though

[eolson]

Awesome, no surprises. ZL1 better G's in cornering, more stable driving. GT500, very good grip and power at the track for a fixed axle. and then... NO BRAKE DUCTING ON THE GT500??? WTF Ford. No wonder they faded.

The ride in the GT500 is just like all our rides with stiff suspensions are in our Mustang, blah, blah,blah... but the car sticks it at the track. Boom!!!

I guess to hit 200mph, SVT couldn't think of a way to make brake ducting aerodynamic enough. Hard to believe.... bummer, Erik