The BEST Break for a new car. "very long" - Page 22

Infern0 · 12-03-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robkesl

all of these seem to be for the v8s, what about the v-6? sorry i read thru like 8 pages, my eyes hurt. i have a manual too, but already have 1500miles.

ive always been told to baby for the first couple thousand. not only did the guy who sold it to me say that, but his boss, and their friend told me to baby it for the first couple thousand, and not to use cruise control : (
i did baby it to a point, but i would still accelerate to 10 over the speedlimit always. i wouldnt call them hard accelerations, but deffinatly not limp!

Hahah it was just 3 posts up from yours.

brAnd7onX · 12-05-2009, 10:24 PM

Hey Darin,

What is engine breaking?? When your breaking in the car when can you use the break to slow the car down??

MikeW · 12-06-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brAnd7onX

Hey Darin,

What is engine breaking?? When your breaking in the car when can you use the break to slow the car down??

Engine braking is the act of using the retarding forces within an engine to slow a vehicle down, as opposed to using an external braking mechanism, e.g. friction brakes or magnetic brakes.

The term engine braking usually refers to the braking effect caused by throttle position induced vacuum in petrol engines. While some of the braking force is due to friction in the drive train, this is negligible compared to the effect from vacuum.

When the throttle is lifted less air is allowed to pass through the intake manifold, and the engine works against this vacuum. It is the deceleration of the engine against this vacuum which provides the braking effect.

As per Wikipedia

IOM-SS · 12-09-2009, 09:41 AM

30 years ago I could take a car out and not worry about getting stopped for speeding but the population is so dense it is foolish.

Will I get the same breakin results on a DYNO? plenty of places around Southern California. I live in Orange County.

will be ordering my Camaro in January 2010 SS RS

WhiteCrane · 12-12-2009, 03:19 PM

What about the transmission? Don't those gears need some time to set properly? I'm sure the engine should be broken in HARD but I fear the effects on the rest of the drivetrain.

Not just the tranny, but allt he opther moving parts required to spin wheels. Will they be okay with ROUGH driving before they've have a chance to 'set'?

Banshee · 12-12-2009, 04:45 PM

Why do people have to take someone elses work, "retune" and look like a messiah?

This information has been out there for years and years. Someone comes along, repackages it and all of a sudden "wham"!

People...

Please do your research on the people who are actually doing the testing and not those who are reading, trying and reposting!

brAnd7onX · 12-13-2009, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW

Engine braking is the act of using the retarding forces within an engine to slow a vehicle down, as opposed to using an external braking mechanism, e.g. friction brakes or magnetic brakes.

The term engine braking usually refers to the braking effect caused by throttle position induced vacuum in petrol engines. While some of the braking force is due to friction in the drive train, this is negligible compared to the effect from vacuum.

When the throttle is lifted less air is allowed to pass through the intake manifold, and the engine works against this vacuum. It is the deceleration of the engine against this vacuum which provides the braking effect.

As per Wikipedia

So is downshifting instead of letting the foot off the gas engine breaking?

WhiteCrane · 12-13-2009, 10:13 AM

Isn't there some kind of device to prevent it from being thrown into anything "higher" than Neutral?

My Camry wont go into Reverse when the wheels are turning anything more than like 5 mph.

TommyTSquared · 12-14-2009, 08:00 PM

edit: reading rest of the thread first

Avalnch · 12-17-2009, 02:30 AM

Darin, great first post and it confirms my view on cars (and about everything you buy) in general. If it breaks the first time you use it hard, then it wasn't meant to be. Can't wait to take possession of my 2SS/RS LS3!

Iron Lung Jimmy · 12-17-2009, 05:16 PM

Disclaimer: I haven’t bothered to read this whole thread so if this has already been addressed, oh well…

IMO, anybody who ignores the owner’s manual and breaks in their Camaro based solely on what some guy on the internet writes is an idiot. Harsh? Maybe… but true.

The OP’s claimed credentials are that he has been building engines for 25 years. So what… things change. How many LS3’s has he built?

Then he states that the method described in the owner’s manual is written as legal cover… which is absurd. If the proper method of breaking in your engine was to do a bunch of hard acceleration runs, sure, GM would not want to print that. But neither would they print the exact opposite… they just wouldn’t print anything. Since the Mustang debacle of a few years ago manufacturers are very aware that their engines have to produce the advertised power. There is no way in hell GM would recommend a procedure that would compromise their engines ability to produce the advertised power.

If GM tells you to go easy for the first 1,500 miles… when if it was necessary to cover themselves legally they would be better off saying nothing… there really must be a reason. Who are you going to believe, the people who designed and built the car or some guy on the internet?

The piston to bore clearance in LS3’s is a negative number. That means the piston is slightly larger than the bore (we’re talking microns). As the engine breaks in, material is worn off the piston… the end result being a very tight tolerance. Armed with that knowledge alone, I am going to postulate that it either doesn’t matter how you break in the engine or that breaking it in slowly would be better. Since GM recommends slowly I am going with that since I see no downside. In my mind’s eye I would kind of like to see the piston material worn off slowly so the piston and bore get to know each other gradually and form a nice fit.

And even if it doesn’t matter to the engine, at least my transmission and differential will get a chance to wear in better.

I would love to hear from a GM engineer on this subject.

Infern0 · 12-17-2009, 05:41 PM

Wow, welcome to the party.

Not taking side with anyone, but just want to point out that the manual is not written by the engine's engineers; nor is it created from scratch for each car. A lot of text not particular to a specific vehicle is carried over from manual to manual. Furthermore, to quote the most recent discussion in another thread, the manual also discourages bogging down the car during operation. The manual for the very car which automatically engages skip shift at 16MPH to shift to 4th gear. Seem like a contradiction to anyone else?

I used a hard break in method on my car, not because Darin said to, or because he listed creds which may or may not be true; but because those claims peaked my interest enough to do my own research. During which I found numerous other articles and claims that back up statements in this thread, as well as the alleged credibility the OP claims to have.

Additionally, if you do go through the entire thread, you'll notice that Darin doesn't once belittle or degrade anyone who chose to follow the manual's instructions.

Just some food for thought.

Iron Lung Jimmy · 12-17-2009, 06:00 PM

Notice I said "solely on what some guy on the internet writes"... and I stand by that. If all a person did was make up their mind based on the original post they are an idiot.

You did more research so you do not fall into that classification.

I, too, tried to research it as much as I could. Most of the stuff I was coming up with was for motorcycle engines or racing engines... neither of which I felt applied.

I will fall back on this... GM knows that their engines have to produce the advertised power. There is no way they would compromise that by just putting some cookie cutter recommendation into the manual of a car as high profile as the LS3 Camaro. No way in hell. So maybe breaking it in hard won't hurt it but I am of the opinion that following GM's recommendations definitely won't.

tradosaurus · 12-21-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Notice I said "solely on what some guy on the internet writes"... and I stand by that. If all a person did was make up their mind based on the original post they are an idiot.

You did more research so you do not fall into that classification.

I, too, tried to research it as much as I could. Most of the stuff I was coming up with was for motorcycle engines or racing engines... neither of which I felt applied.

I will fall back on this... GM knows that their engines have to produce the advertised power. There is no way they would compromise that by just putting some cookie cutter recommendation into the manual of a car as high profile as the LS3 Camaro. No way in hell. So maybe breaking it in hard won't hurt it but I am of the opinion that following GM's recommendations definitely won't.

But it's so much more fun to do the hard break-in. At 1500 miles on the odometer I still feel the need..... the need... for SPEED....

If I wanted to drive like a granny I would have bought a Chevette!

P.S. I'm a mechanical engineer and I vouch for the hard break-in procedure.

12-09-2009, 09:41 AM	#298
IOM-SS Drives: 2010 SS RS 2G1FT1EWXA9163596 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County California Posts: 219 View My Garage	Sane resukts 30 years ago I could take a car out and not worry about getting stopped for speeding but the population is so dense it is foolish. Will I get the same breakin results on a DYNO? plenty of places around Southern California. I live in Orange County. will be ordering my Camaro in January 2010 SS RS

12-12-2009, 04:45 PM	#300
Banshee Institutionally Insane Drives: 2013 IOM 2SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 2,115 View My Garage	Why do people have to take someone elses work, "retune" and look like a messiah? This information has been out there for years and years. Someone comes along, repackages it and all of a sudden "wham"! People... Please do your research on the people who are *actually* doing the testing and not those who are reading, trying and reposting! __________________ It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?

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12-05-2009, 10:24 PM	#296
brAnd7onX Drives: 2012 1SS IOM Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Hutto, TX Posts: 1,642	Hey Darin, What is engine breaking?? When your breaking in the car when can you use the break to slow the car down??

12-12-2009, 03:19 PM	#299
WhiteCrane Drives: 2010 Mustang GT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 395 View My Garage	What about the transmission? Don't those gears need some time to set properly? I'm sure the engine should be broken in HARD but I fear the effects on the rest of the drivetrain. Not just the tranny, but allt he opther moving parts required to spin wheels. Will they be okay with ROUGH driving before they've have a chance to 'set'?

12-13-2009, 10:13 AM	#302
WhiteCrane Drives: 2010 Mustang GT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 395 View My Garage	Isn't there some kind of device to prevent it from being thrown into anything "higher" than Neutral? My Camry wont go into Reverse when the wheels are turning anything more than like 5 mph.

12-14-2009, 08:00 PM	#303
TommyTSquared Drives: RSSS Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 2,492	edit: reading rest of the thread first

12-17-2009, 02:30 AM	#304
Avalnch Drives: Rally Yellow Camaro+Avalanche Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,110	Darin, great first post and it confirms my view on cars (and about everything you buy) in general. If it breaks the first time you use it hard, then it wasn't meant to be. Can't wait to take possession of my 2SS/RS LS3!

12-17-2009, 05:16 PM	#305
Iron Lung Jimmy Drives: Iron Lung, Jimmy Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,577	Disclaimer: I haven’t bothered to read this whole thread so if this has already been addressed, oh well… IMO, anybody who ignores the owner’s manual and breaks in their Camaro based solely on what some guy on the internet writes is an idiot. Harsh? Maybe… but true. The OP’s claimed credentials are that he has been building engines for 25 years. So what… things change. How many LS3’s has he built? Then he states that the method described in the owner’s manual is written as legal cover… which is absurd. If the proper method of breaking in your engine was to do a bunch of hard acceleration runs, sure, GM would not want to print that. But neither would they print the exact opposite… they just wouldn’t print anything. Since the Mustang debacle of a few years ago manufacturers are very aware that their engines have to produce the advertised power. There is no way in hell GM would recommend a procedure that would compromise their engines ability to produce the advertised power. If GM tells you to go easy for the first 1,500 miles… when if it was necessary to cover themselves legally they would be better off saying nothing… there really must be a reason. Who are you going to believe, the people who designed and built the car or some guy on the internet? The piston to bore clearance in LS3’s is a negative number. That means the piston is slightly larger than the bore (we’re talking microns). As the engine breaks in, material is worn off the piston… the end result being a very tight tolerance. Armed with that knowledge alone, I am going to postulate that it either doesn’t matter how you break in the engine or that breaking it in slowly would be better. Since GM recommends slowly I am going with that since I see no downside. In my mind’s eye I would kind of like to see the piston material worn off slowly so the piston and bore get to know each other gradually and form a nice fit. And even if it doesn’t matter to the engine, at least my transmission and differential will get a chance to wear in better. I would love to hear from a GM engineer on this subject.

12-17-2009, 05:41 PM	#306
Infern0 Bring It Drives: In Between Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 2,929 View My Garage	Wow, welcome to the party. Not taking side with anyone, but just want to point out that the manual is not written by the engine's engineers; nor is it created from scratch for each car. A lot of text not particular to a specific vehicle is carried over from manual to manual. Furthermore, to quote the most recent discussion in another thread, the manual also discourages bogging down the car during operation. The manual for the very car which automatically engages skip shift at 16MPH to shift to 4th gear. Seem like a contradiction to anyone else? I used a hard break in method on my car, not because Darin said to, or because he listed creds which may or may not be true; but because those claims peaked my interest enough to do my own research. During which I found numerous other articles and claims that back up statements in this thread, as well as the alleged credibility the OP claims to have. Additionally, if you do go through the entire thread, you'll notice that Darin doesn't once belittle or degrade anyone who chose to follow the manual's instructions. Just some food for thought.

12-17-2009, 06:00 PM	#307
Iron Lung Jimmy Drives: Iron Lung, Jimmy Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,577	Notice I said "solely on what some guy on the internet writes"... and I stand by that. If all a person did was make up their mind based on the original post they are an idiot. You did more research so you do not fall into that classification. I, too, tried to research it as much as I could. Most of the stuff I was coming up with was for motorcycle engines or racing engines... neither of which I felt applied. I will fall back on this... GM knows that their engines have to produce the advertised power. There is no way they would compromise that by just putting some cookie cutter recommendation into the manual of a car as high profile as the LS3 Camaro. No way in hell. So maybe breaking it in hard won't hurt it but I am of the opinion that following GM's recommendations definitely won't.