2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[A-little-perspective]

Originally Posted by Bob Cosby

6/10s (and 11 mph), but who's counting....

Pssh, time is only relevant on a road course, LOL. I see the writers conveniently let monumental and significant escape their vocabulary for Part 2.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

So, when you put handling AND grip together, "end of story"...right?

That's what we thought/knew, too...

Not really; no. You get great handling and track times. If that was the case, everybody would be in love with lotus exige's and factory cup car variants like the c6 cup, gt3 rs cup etc.

A lot of people also like quick drag strip times, big hp, broad torque, and high speed let alone personal preference and mog.

Yes the zl1 handles amazingly but its missing the engine and gearing to run easy 11's and 200mph. Different strokes for different folks. Both cars are amazing in different ways. One handles great and has amazing speed/accel for the cash (only $60k vs euro cars that cost 2 to 4x as much; $370,000 Lexus lfa eats a brick), the other has great acceleration and top speed with amazing handling for only $55k (vs cars that are two to three times the price; Aston Martin DBS, Mercedes sls can't keep up)

On a real note; these cars can both be complimented with mods that bolster their great skill sets to the level of their amazing sets relatively inexpensively; and thats the beauty of American pony/muscle; or rather these latest hyper pony/muscle cars.

Getting 100hp out of the zl1 without upping the boost which would try the internals of the motor and build heat soak? You'll need a cam, heads, valve springs, etc plus a dyno tune and labor. That's about $4,500 done correctly. If you wanna buy used or lesser parts, it can be done for $2,000 but labor alone will bump that right up. If you up the boost, you'll exacerbate heat soak which would ruin its on track ability as it would be dangerous to be hard on the car once it started seeing high iat's; a couple laps and the fun would be done.

A set of sway bars endlinks/bushings, springs and stickier/wider tires should take a gt500 to a whole new level if it just needs a little grip and less body roll. $2,500 on a high with labor. Problem is though, bigger tires might drop mpg a bit and stiffer springs/sways might hurt launch but the wider stickier tires might help peak grip. Hard part is ride will also be punished which is a more serious problem with this approach..

What do we learn? Each cars factory engineering is pretty maxed in each of its possible efforts without driving costs too high or stressing durability. You can have great handling and amazing speed/accel or great speed/accel with amazing handling. From there it's the owners play call if they wanna bolster the skillets of either car.

Tomato tomawto man; with muscle cars half the fun is being able to bring more potential out of them and personalize them. Reference: 1964 mustang sales. Argue that isn't the case and you'll look the fool as most everybody on car forums mods their cars from little ways to power adders and motor swaps.

My car factory handled ok and had good speed/accel; now it handles great, grips really well, and has ridiculous speed/accel. Other guys have built custom sla's, added downforce, and built very durable na motors to really track their cars and have amazing grip, handling etc with great speed and accel. It's the fun of muscle cars, buy it on a workers budget, enjoy it, and mod it if you'd like inexpensively compared to euro and Asian cars.

Bottom line? What you thought/knew isn't the general consensus, most people but something after weighing pros and cons, and deciding what they may or may not change. When people buy a house, they paint the rooms, stain the deck, paint the outside, change the windows, custom tailor the yard, etc.

When they buy a car, they tint the windows, add gadgets, and enthusiasts mod them. Often. It's quite easy to assume enthusiasts will buy the gt500 and zl1 and it's obvious modding is already full under way for both cars. The options are there so there isn't a clear end of story.

[Betiwin]

Well Said.

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

The ZL1 will outperform the 13 Shelby on the Motor Trend test too its a forgone conclusion that the ZL1 regardless of it having 100 less horsepower and weighing more is STILL faster around a road course and is a better handling car than the 13 Shelby every review has said this and the Motor Trend test will be no different. Theres too much tech in the ZL1 with the MRS the more complete car is the ZL1. Yeah for pure straight line performance and bragging rights the Shelby is the choice but for a complete all around performance car the ZL1 is the pick. The Shelby is more harsh on the road and the ZL1 rides better. This is also why Ford never released Nurburgring times it simply couldnt perform a faster lap there than the ZL1. If you want the BEST handling and decent straightline performance get the ZL1. If you want better straightline performance and a little less weight get the Shelby.

Hehehehe, your reasoning on Ford not releasing numbers from Da Rang is a flawed theory.

I think you will be shocked at the numbers MT gets between the two. The track where they tested has long straights suited for hi-po cars to take advantage. Whatever very s light handling advantage the ZL1 has, it's not enough to make up a 120 HP advantage on the right road course.

Most muscle car fans want straightline performance and Ford is king.

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

That and hot shoe as well. A driver that can tame the Shelby should be quicker in it but it's easier to drive a great handling car fast vs drive a bullet car fast. The Shelby handles well but the zl1 really out shines its handling. Grip is about the same in both cars but actual handling and confidence is quantum leaps better in the zl1 based on these reviews. A pro with lots of car control can tame the gt500 and run fast in it but the average driver will be much better able to go fast in the zl1; mr and IRS are huge factors for confidence

Handling trumps grip pretty much every time. Drive a '10 viper acr then drive a z06 with the zr1 suspension/tires/brake package, one has a bit more grip but the other handles so much better. Their lap times on most tracks are pretty close considering one is pretty naked with 505hp and the other is fully dressed in aero bits plus has 600hp.

Finesse and confidence go a long way in a chassis. This is why ferrari's and porsche's are so loved; the cars may not be the fastest but they are so telepathic and enjoyable that the driving experience is very very enjoyable; you could do it for hours.

How many road tests is that not counting the one from the nerd?

[2010-1SS-IBM]

Originally Posted by Long Carbine

Whatever very s light handling advantage the ZL1 has, it's not enough to make up a 120 HP advantage on the right road course.

Please, tell us more about this 120 HP advantage.

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I never thought I'd love ricer math so much, but I have to use it to justify my purchase.

5/10ths of a second in a 12 second race is a much greater margin of victory than 7/10ths of a second in a 1:40 race.

And that's a joke.

Hats off to GM for making the Camaro perform the way it did/has/will on a road course. I still find it fishy everyone here is suddenly a road racer and doesn't find quarter mile times meaningful, but that aside congratulations. I expected the GT500 to squeak out victories on a road course, and it still may on others, so I'm slightly surprised by our first two timed reviews. I won't sit around and cry though. Just a nice tip of the hat, a well played, and enjoy.

Also, I still think LoWDOWN is a turd, but a witty turd nonetheless.

It wasn't that way when I had my 99 and 01 Cobras. All we heard was "No replacement for displacement"............no handling boasts. I had F-Bodies on me like flies to doodoo.

Then the Terminators came out and that eneded the "No replacement for displacement" boasts. I rarely ran into an F-Body in my 03.

Seven tenths on a short road course. That's not a lot for the boasts old Al Oppenheimer made in his letter. Especially the butt gouging the ZL1 takes from the GT500 on the drag strip.

[Long Carbine]

Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM

Please, tell us more about this 120 HP advantage.

Hehehehe, Youtube video of a GT500 and a ZL1 on the same dyno back to back, ZL1 495 rwhp, GT500 595 rwhp. Roughly 120 at the crank. And, that's the lowest dyno pull I have seen for a 2013, most have been easily in the 600's with some as high as 620 SAE.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Also, I still think LOWDOWN is a turd, but a witty turd nonetheless.

Actually, for the sake of all those 1st-Generation Americans, I not only have "T'irds" but some Seconds and Firsts, too...

Welcome to America!

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

So, when you put handling AND grip together, "end of story"...right?

That's what we thought/knew, too...

No, if that was tge case, the best car would be a lotus exige. It isnt. The end all is whoever buys these cars and decides they wanna mod them tastefully to balance them out. The zl1 needs more power to fully outgun the gt500 and the gt500 needs wider tires with better springs and sway bars/end links to handle better.

Stock, neither is a total winner vs the other, but just like 1964, the real winners are those that balance out their cars with tasteful mods. Prochargers then for pony cars, handling mods for muscle cars. Now, people even mod their houses with jacuzzi's and so on, those people win over home owners that pay a ton more for houses with those features.

Guys that leave em stock lose out to those that balance the cars. That said, neither car is bad in stock trim, so it's not really a big deal but obviously, faster is more fun/enjoyable.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Actually, for the sake of all those 1st-Generation Americans, I not only have "T'irds" but some Seconds and Firsts, too...

Welcome to America!

That's more so corny than witty, by more so, somewhere north of 85%, but that's just based off my rosetta stone so it could be off.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

That's more so corny than witty, by more so, somewhere north of 85%, but that's just based off my rosetta stone so it could be off.

Speaking of corny..

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by mlee

Speaking of corny..

Here's what our databases figured out as to why your argument permanently failed to receive appreciation.



Apparently you encountered error code 011010 because of a cat pushing a watermelon out of a lake. This happens more often than people would think. Sorry for your inconvenience, pleas try again later.

[mlee]

....and it just gets better.