Electric Vehicles

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Aqua Blue RS/SS

I hope the battery dies In the middle of 1-2 or 3-4 where you have to be going at least 90 to stay on the banking. Such a stupid thing to bring to the Daytona 500. A new ZR1 would have been appropriate. This is an embarrassment. I don’t even know why I admit I’m a Chevy guy anymore.

Don’t even get me started on them racing a car that is closing in on 2 my’s out of production. What a joke. I’ve been following nascar passionately for more than 3 decades. This is an all time low.

I am not a NASCAR guy and just watched it, I too think that was really bad. Although in 2001 they did have the Pontiac Aztec, 2019 a Silverado but at least it had a V8

[swisscheese]

Wow
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...-500-pace-car/

[snizzle]

Super vague but:
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2025/02...yet-exclusive/

"the proposal was “blown apart” due to the business case not being strong enough."

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Super vague but:
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2025/02...yet-exclusive/

"the proposal was “blown apart” due to the business case not being strong enough."

With support from some GM executives, the group’s purpose was to make a business case for the seventh generation of the iconic muscle car. A plan was generated and compiled, but upon being presented to decision makers, the proposal was “blown apart” due to the business case not being strong enough.

In essence, the plan’s key business-level performance targets – including sales volume forecast and profitability figures – were not met to green light the next-gen Camaro.

One source tells us that GM is still kicking the project around. “It’s still in play, but the light at the end of the tunnel is now dimmer,” the source tells us.

During my time in Product Portfolio Planning we had a name for this. The name was "Thursday". That was the day for the Product Development Review where every vehicle program goes for...well...review. And approval. Because of my position at the time I was in every one of those meetings for several years. Sat right behind Bob Lutz. He sat next to my boss and I had to be present to support my boss and take on any powertrain related assignments. I personally sat through 2 meetings where C6 was killed due to an insufficient business case. And yet, here we are seeing C8 on the street.

FWIW, the only vehicles I ever saw NOT get killed at some point in the product development process, or at least sent back to sharpen the pencils a bit, were full sized truck programs. Shocker. And even then there were specialty trims that did get killed. Like the 6-door Suburban and V10 trucks and utes.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

With support from some GM executives, the group’s purpose was to make a business case for the seventh generation of the iconic muscle car. A plan was generated and compiled, but upon being presented to decision makers, the proposal was “blown apart” due to the business case not being strong enough.

In essence, the plan’s key business-level performance targets – including sales volume forecast and profitability figures – were not met to green light the next-gen Camaro.

One source tells us that GM is still kicking the project around. “It’s still in play, but the light at the end of the tunnel is now dimmer,” the source tells us.

During my time in Product Portfolio Planning we had a name for this. The name was "Thursday". That was the day for the Product Development Review where every vehicle program goes for...well...review. Because of my position at the time I was in every one of those meetings for several years. Sat right behind Bob Lutz. He sat next to my boss and I had to be present to support my boss and take on any powertrain related assignments. I personally sat through 2 meetings where C6 was killed due to an insufficient business case. And yet, here we are seeing C8 on the street.

FWIW, the only vehicles I ever saw NOT get killed at some point in the product development process, or at least sent back to sharpen the pencils a bit, were full sized truck programs. Shocker. And even then there were specialty trims that did get killed. Like the 6-door Suburban and V10 trucks and utes.

I suppose this Blazer EV SS will have to do as the closest thing.

Probably performs as well as any Camaro EV would anyhow.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

I suppose this Blazer EV SS will have to do as the closest thing.

Probably performs as well as any Camaro EV would anyhow.

That would all be a matter of motor and battery choices. If GM can get a 10,000 pound Hummer EV to do 0-60 in about 3 seconds imagine what they could do with a 4,500 pound more aerodynamic Camaro EV.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

With support from some GM executives, the group’s purpose was to make a business case for the seventh generation of the iconic muscle car. A plan was generated and compiled, but upon being presented to decision makers, the proposal was “blown apart” due to the business case not being strong enough.

In essence, the plan’s key business-level performance targets – including sales volume forecast and profitability figures – were not met to green light the next-gen Camaro.

One source tells us that GM is still kicking the project around. “It’s still in play, but the light at the end of the tunnel is now dimmer,” the source tells us.

During my time in Product Portfolio Planning we had a name for this. The name was "Thursday". That was the day for the Product Development Review where every vehicle program goes for...well...review. And approval. Because of my position at the time I was in every one of those meetings for several years. Sat right behind Bob Lutz. He sat next to my boss and I had to be present to support my boss and take on any powertrain related assignments. I personally sat through 2 meetings where C6 was killed due to an insufficient business case. And yet, here we are seeing C8 on the street.

FWIW, the only vehicles I ever saw NOT get killed at some point in the product development process, or at least sent back to sharpen the pencils a bit, were full sized truck programs. Shocker. And even then there were specialty trims that did get killed. Like the 6-door Suburban and V10 trucks and utes.

Interesting. We're all assuming this is a BEV Camaro being proposed. I do think it's probably a uphill battle if this an 2 door BEV coupe. How do you even project volume for a project like that?

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That would all be a matter of motor and battery choices. If GM can get a 10,000 pound Hummer EV to do 0-60 in about 3 seconds imagine what they could do with a 4,500 pound more aerodynamic Camaro EV.

And could probably be a little better turning left and right.....

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Interesting. We're all assuming this is a BEV Camaro being proposed. I do think it's probably a uphill battle if this an 2 door BEV coupe. How do you even project volume for a project like that?

Remember a while back in this thread (or maybe it was the "Mary Barra must resign" thread) I mentioned that someone in a position to know told me they had seen two Camaro clay models and one had tailpipes? It would make sense to me that there was a key executive behind at least the one with tailpipes. That's how skunkworks projects work. It would take somebody with pull to get a clay model built. Anybody's guess as to whether the one with tailpipes was an ICE version or a PHEV or Range Extended version. I'm working under the assumption that the tailpipe model is the one that "got blown apart". The EV version doesn't need an executive champion because a couple of GM C-suite execs have already said there will be one.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Interesting. We're all assuming this is a BEV Camaro being proposed. I do think it's probably a uphill battle if this an 2 door BEV coupe. How do you even project volume for a project like that?

Gonna try to answer this without boring the crap out of everybody...

This is part of what Product Portfolio Planning does. Take the ideas that come forward from the vehicle product teams and measure them against a number of data points to forecast whether or not there is a market for it and who / how many might actually be in that market. Also, what other competitors might also be in that same market. My last 10 years at GM I was in the group that gathered intel on what competitors were coming to market with to provide that part of the business case / volume forecast detail. We bought a lot of data from several companies.

One of those companies is the company I've been working at for the past several years. We collect and analyze data on what consumers are buying, what they are willing to pay for them, income / occupation, level of education, etc/ We develop "personas" for vehicle buyers in every market segment. We also gather detail on new techs and features that are working their way to market and identify which brands are likely to use them and in which products.

All of this information is compiled to generate forecasts of what the market will look like as much as 12 years out. Every automaker you can think of buys our forecast data. Some of them use it as is, some (GM for sure) use it as the basis to develop their own forecasts and that's the information on volume forecast that goes into the business case.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

And could probably be a little better turning left and right.....

Imagine the handling of an EV Camaro with "crab-walk" rear steering technology...now take that puppy to Laguna Seca and let 'er rip.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Gonna try to answer this without boring the crap out of everybody...

This is part of what Product Portfolio Planning does. Take the ideas that come forward from the vehicle product teams and measure them against a number of data points to forecast whether or not there is a market for it and who / how many might actually be in that market. Also, what other competitors might also be in that same market. My last 10 years at GM I was in the group that gathered intel on what competitors were coming to market with to provide that part of the business case / volume forecast detail. We bought a lot of data from several companies.

One of those companies is the company I've been working at for the past several years. We collect and analyze data on what consumers are buying, what they are willing to pay for them, income / occupation, level of education, etc/ We develop "personas" for vehicle buyers in every market segment. We also gather detail on new techs and features that are working their way to market and identify which brands are likely to use them and in which products.

All of this information is compiled to generate forecasts of what the market will look like as much as 12 years out. Every automaker you can think of buys our forecast data. Some of them use it as is, some (GM for sure) use it as the basis to develop their own forecasts and that's the information on volume forecast that goes into the business case.

Just how many dentists' spouses can gm expect to pull in, on a weekend toy BEV, from say a Motorweek or a web 'influencer push?
How is that a legitimate Camaro?

[FarmerFran]

I am heavily considering a Ramcharger,

For anyone who has not been in a RAM or hates on them, the RAMBOX, Tailgate, the 4-corner air suspension, the list goes on and on...

now pair that up with 700 miles of range and no need to charge - but charge if you want for ~150 (more than that but do not remember the number) you can.

This is absolutely how they should have started out with EV.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I am heavily considering a Ramcharger,

For anyone who has not been in a RAM or hates on them, the RAMBOX, Tailgate, the 4-corner air suspension, the list goes on and on...

now pair that up with 700 miles of range and no need to charge - but charge if you want for ~150 (more than that but do not remember the number) you can.

This is absolutely how they should have started out with EV.

You mean a BEV Silverado where the batteries weigh as much as a Civic was the wrong move?

As far as the Ram is concerned, I thought the Rambox was cool until I noticed how narrow the bed was with those equipped. The tailgate? Eh, I prefer GM's version.