2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD - Page 21

tt335ci03cobra · 05-15-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDeanSausage

Source?

It's true; fords officially released that info.

Convertibles are likely to be limited to 155 because of safety irregardless of option packs but that's still up I the air

LOWDOWN · 05-15-2012, 03:32 PM

54/46? 55/45?

Neither...it's apparently 56/44...

Source: http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-...pecifications/

tt335ci03cobra · 05-15-2012, 03:33 PM

Ya but lowdown; that was a manufacturer release and caranddriver literally weighed the car on corner scales.

It's not logical to stick to a figure that's been proven invalid by not only caranddriver but a few others as well.

Ford said the 1999 cobra made 320hp; turns out only 305 of them were showing up. Mistakes happen and manufacturers fudge te numbers.

Nissan keeps getting Porsche riled up and porsche keeps disproving their laptimes at the ring by contracting drivers to do the same; and I mean pro's not techs and it always ends the same.

I'm just saying gm imbellished it's weight balance of the zl1 because it's been proven by more than just car and driver to be the case. Gm must use a different system than corner scales

LOWDOWN · 05-15-2012, 03:39 PM

"Speaking of mass, there will also be a convertible version of the GT500, as before. And though, theoretically, any 2013 Shelby should have the muscle to hit 200 mph, Ford will govern the top speed of the convertible to 155 mph or so, the current Shelby’s speed limit. The heavier convertible has a softer suspension and no rollover hoop. It’s also likely that the Shelby coupe without the Performance and Track packages may be governed, due to cooling issues—the Track package adds engine-, transmission-, and differential-lubricant coolers. After all, SVT says the Shelby coupe weighs 3850 pounds, and its powertrain generates a lot of heat."

Source: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-a-bmw-page-2

...which BTW doesn't bode well for that super-amazing 'Ring time...HEAT SOAK...

tt335ci03cobra · 05-15-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

54/46? 55/45?

Neither...it's apparently 56/44...

Source: http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-...pecifications/

That link didnt work and is not car and driver; for consistency I quoted car and driver for both cars since they use the same weighing system on all cars tested.

Here's pics from the car and driver article. 55.7/44.3

Also fascinating was their 0-60 time; which is arguably just as good as the zl1's since no one has gotten gm's claim of 4.0 for the manual. This gt500 did 4.1 and a 12.4@117.

Caranddriver did get 4.1 as well for the zl1 while recording a slightly faster 12.3@119. I won't do the maths up for the gtr comparison by the mag that only got a 13.1@113 for a zl1 because those tests weren't optimal.

Here's a pic of the gt500 performance

Cool to note: both this gt500 and zl1 are rated at 1g, car and driver recorded .98 for the zl1 and 1.0 for the 2011. But they said the surface was a little dusty and that really showed in the braking distance which faded considerably as stops continued.

The 2011 gt500 did 151ft 60-0 in that test while the zl1 did 163 if my memories right but again, dusty track even though it was a good enough surface to essentially match gm's 0-60 data

assasinator · 05-15-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRT8Tech

Not on tires........A stock GT500 on sticky tires owns the tuned, CAI, geared, exhaust and sticky tired 5.0's.

Just from what I have seen. Not taking anything away from the 5.0 but facts are facts......

with tires a 2011/2012 gt500 approaches 10's. the 5.0 is not in the same planet.

LOWDOWN · 05-15-2012, 03:55 PM

Gosh, 03, let's use YOUR numbers:

3850 X .443 = 1705 lb/rear

4120 X .471 = 1941 lb/rear

270 lb. difference...of which 236 favor the ZL1's REAR...let alone it's extra 1.85" touching the ground.

tt335ci03cobra · 05-15-2012, 03:59 PM

If it got traction at 3,500rpms on snow tires, I bet it dead hooks on its goodyears man. Sorry but that link isn't helping your argument any.

Cooling wise, it won't be much better or worse than the zl1 if you get the performance pack for those mods.

Ya its an add on but you get so much in the base gt500 that it's not a big deal. 668hp for 55k is a steal in this day and age (factory with a warranty)

LOWDOWN · 05-15-2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Car and driver did get 4.1 as well for the zl1 while recording a slightly faster 12.3@119.

But they said the surface was a little dusty and that really showed in the braking distance which faded considerably as stops continued.

But the "surface conditions" are what has propagated all manner of Ford-fan derision about the ZL1...and led to the vociferous disbelieving when the 12.0s and 11.9s started to appear in better "conditions"...let alone the 11.8s and .7s to come. 'Course, "surface conditions" weren't considered by those folks, were they?

assasinator · 05-15-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Ya that makes sense then. Funny though how the different manufactures have differing widths even though the numbers should tell otherwise.

Needless to say its all relative, these cars all go about their business in very different ways. What works on one isn't the answer for the other.

Chevy used tall gears and wide meats on the z06 and zr1 but short gears on the zl1 with skinnier meat relative to the vette's.

Ford chose taller gearing and skinnier tires than the zl1 coupled with a very intricate launch control. Also, solid axle's do generally like drag strips so hopefully it'll hook with these new changes. Magazines estimate 3.6 0-60 and it's likely they aren't wrong.

I've heard even j smith clocked 3.4 and an 11.3 but that track was literally a vht field. (buzz from insiders, no proof) They claimed 3.6 and an 11.65@125 in the article assuming conditions most will have. Considering those numbers, I don't think it'll have a problem hooking up.

when i buy tires of a specific size, i buy the ones with the largest actual contact patch(tread width) for the rim i use.

LOWDOWN · 05-15-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

If it got traction at 3,500rpms on snow tires, I bet it dead hooks on its goodyears man. Sorry but that link isn't helping your argument any.

"Pre-production mule"...which, if you follow the Ford-fan posts, are NOT to be believed about the ZL1, no matter where/when/how...

From that SAME CandD source, quoting Ford's test driver: "Surprisingly, though, Martindale says that, properly heated by a good burnout, the stock Goodyears nearly match the slicks’ launch traction".

How can THAT be?! "No WAY!!" said the Ford faithful about Chev's 11.93/11.96 times on GYs...

Have we heard about the weather in Germany? Still rainin'? Stop-watch broken? Flat tire? Car crashed? One thing about cloudy/rainy weather: It makes it tough to use a sundial to time a car...

tt335ci03cobra · 05-15-2012, 04:16 PM

Lowdown, regarding more weight: ya it will go from 0-20 a hair faster but the rest of the time that weight is a burden. The original Shelby cobra was fast for a reason, as he said " wanna know the trick to going fast, add lightness"

A lighter car has physics on its side to handle better, everything else from there relies on the techs and wizardry to either account for the weight or maximize the lack of weight. With great engineers on each side of the approach, light weight usually does better.

The c5z06 had a nose heavier 54/46 balance but handily out did cars with 50/50 balances due to being light and very well engineered. I'm saying the new gt500 shares a similarity to the c5 z in this sense relative to its class.

If it was the case that weight on fat tires to reach a near 50/50 balance was the best approach, every hotlapper with a c5 z06 would have done so long ago to better balance the cars factory 54/46. I've never heard or seen it done though so obviously they found better ways to account for the balance.

tt335ci03cobra · 05-15-2012, 04:27 PM

The reason we don't believe the 11.96 is the low mph and very low 60ft. Very reputable shops with excellent drivers and slicks/skinnies are barely getting 1.70 and 1.60 60ft times albeit with even more mph paying homage to the driver mod present in these shops.

When I see a video with a zl1 on goodyears running an 11.9@120 or more then I'll believe it but to see a video of a car on drag radials that doesnt show the pass and lights but shows an 11.9 on paper only to hear the tech say it'll run 12's all day on good years coupled with a sheet showing incredible 1.6x 60fts makes me obviously conclude the run was on the drag radials point blank.

That's not to say its not a great pass but if we start modding the car even slightly, then it's no longer apples to apples.

Imagine how fast the new gt500 could lap the ring if it were on handling cheater slicks like nitto nt01's or for that matter any car. It's just not plausible for goodyears to turn 1.6x times when z06's can't/have never done so apart from 1 account of a 1.68 during a weekend where vht was literally paved on for 6 second cars the following day.

You brought it up but I'm not one to hold my tongue about 1.60's being possible on goodyears. Ban or close, I'm not bad mouthing but it's blatantly obvious the tech did it on dr's.

I want the bone stock zl1 to pull 11.5's@123 for my own agenda as I have a $500 bet with a buddy that someone will this summer. I fear i will lose the bet though.

LOWDOWN · 05-15-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

The c5z06 had a nose heavier 54/46 balance but handily out did cars with 50/50 balances due to being light and very well engineered. I'm saying the new gt500 shares a similarity to the c5 z in this sense relative to its class.

If it was the case that weight on fat tires to reach a near 50/50 balance was the best approach, every hotlapper with a c5 z06 would have done so long ago to better balance the cars factory 54/46. I've never heard or seen it done though so obviously they found better ways to account for the balance.

Now, you're really gettin' off-track, my friend.

There isn't a C5 Z06 in the WORLD that was built 54/46 in Bowling Green...NADA!

I suggest you find the June and July/05 copies of VETTE Magazine and you'll see firsthand how we built the "Project One Lap Z06"...that started @ 51/49 and ended up 50/50, weighing 3118 lb...with a full 'cage...and 305/325 Michelins...and a/c and cruise...and finished SECOND OVERALL, One Lap '06 with a 346" LS6...

View Poll Results: ZL1 or GT500, Which one would you get?
ZL1	5	35.71%
GT500	9	64.29%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

05-15-2012, 03:33 PM	#283
tt335ci03cobra Drives: 03 cobra 5.3 4v fgt's+62's Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: USA Posts: 146	Ya but lowdown; that was a manufacturer release and caranddriver literally weighed the car on corner scales. It's not logical to stick to a figure that's been proven invalid by not only caranddriver but a few others as well. Ford said the 1999 cobra made 320hp; turns out only 305 of them were showing up. Mistakes happen and manufacturers fudge te numbers. Nissan keeps getting Porsche riled up and porsche keeps disproving their laptimes at the ring by contracting drivers to do the same; and I mean pro's not techs and it always ends the same. I'm just saying gm imbellished it's weight balance of the zl1 because it's been proven by more than just car and driver to be the case. Gm must use a different system than corner scales __________________ Silver 03 cobra coupe -Full mm/ftbr chassis, built irs/t56, 3.73s, trutrac -Braces, 6pt, flsc's, brembos, rotary forged sochi's -9.3/1 Livernois 5.3 modular, Diamond, Carrillo etc -FGT heads stage 3 PnP'd, MMR stage 3 turbo grinds -FR500c, custom split maf dual inlet, single blade etc -Comp 62/65 T4's 3xbb, oil/water cooled, blankets etc -CG Fab. ff headers, custom 3" hotside, Tial wastegates -Dual in/out 3" cold side, Tial bov's, Truboost, SCT, NGk -Custom 8qt oil, dual 405s return fuel with id2000's, etc

05-15-2012, 03:59 PM	#288
tt335ci03cobra Drives: 03 cobra 5.3 4v fgt's+62's Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: USA Posts: 146	If it got traction at 3,500rpms on snow tires, I bet it dead hooks on its goodyears man. Sorry but that link isn't helping your argument any. Cooling wise, it won't be much better or worse than the zl1 if you get the performance pack for those mods. Ya its an add on but you get so much in the base gt500 that it's not a big deal. 668hp for 55k is a steal in this day and age (factory with a warranty) __________________ Silver 03 cobra coupe -Full mm/ftbr chassis, built irs/t56, 3.73s, trutrac -Braces, 6pt, flsc's, brembos, rotary forged sochi's -9.3/1 Livernois 5.3 modular, Diamond, Carrillo etc -FGT heads stage 3 PnP'd, MMR stage 3 turbo grinds -FR500c, custom split maf dual inlet, single blade etc -Comp 62/65 T4's 3xbb, oil/water cooled, blankets etc -CG Fab. ff headers, custom 3" hotside, Tial wastegates -Dual in/out 3" cold side, Tial bov's, Truboost, SCT, NGk -Custom 8qt oil, dual 405s return fuel with id2000's, etc

05-15-2012, 04:16 PM	#292
tt335ci03cobra Drives: 03 cobra 5.3 4v fgt's+62's Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: USA Posts: 146	Lowdown, regarding more weight: ya it will go from 0-20 a hair faster but the rest of the time that weight is a burden. The original Shelby cobra was fast for a reason, as he said " wanna know the trick to going fast, add lightness" A lighter car has physics on its side to handle better, everything else from there relies on the techs and wizardry to either account for the weight or maximize the lack of weight. With great engineers on each side of the approach, light weight usually does better. The c5z06 had a nose heavier 54/46 balance but handily out did cars with 50/50 balances due to being light and very well engineered. I'm saying the new gt500 shares a similarity to the c5 z in this sense relative to its class. If it was the case that weight on fat tires to reach a near 50/50 balance was the best approach, every hotlapper with a c5 z06 would have done so long ago to better balance the cars factory 54/46. I've never heard or seen it done though so obviously they found better ways to account for the balance. __________________ Silver 03 cobra coupe -Full mm/ftbr chassis, built irs/t56, 3.73s, trutrac -Braces, 6pt, flsc's, brembos, rotary forged sochi's -9.3/1 Livernois 5.3 modular, Diamond, Carrillo etc -FGT heads stage 3 PnP'd, MMR stage 3 turbo grinds -FR500c, custom split maf dual inlet, single blade etc -Comp 62/65 T4's 3xbb, oil/water cooled, blankets etc -CG Fab. ff headers, custom 3" hotside, Tial wastegates -Dual in/out 3" cold side, Tial bov's, Truboost, SCT, NGk -Custom 8qt oil, dual 405s return fuel with id2000's, etc

05-15-2012, 04:27 PM	#293
tt335ci03cobra Drives: 03 cobra 5.3 4v fgt's+62's Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: USA Posts: 146	The reason we don't believe the 11.96 is the low mph and very low 60ft. Very reputable shops with excellent drivers and slicks/skinnies are barely getting 1.70 and 1.60 60ft times albeit with even more mph paying homage to the driver mod present in these shops. When I see a video with a zl1 on goodyears running an 11.9@120 or more then I'll believe it but to see a video of a car on drag radials that doesnt show the pass and lights but shows an 11.9 on paper only to hear the tech say it'll run 12's all day on good years coupled with a sheet showing incredible 1.6x 60fts makes me obviously conclude the run was on the drag radials point blank. That's not to say its not a great pass but if we start modding the car even slightly, then it's no longer apples to apples. Imagine how fast the new gt500 could lap the ring if it were on handling cheater slicks like nitto nt01's or for that matter any car. It's just not plausible for goodyears to turn 1.6x times when z06's can't/have never done so apart from 1 account of a 1.68 during a weekend where vht was literally paved on for 6 second cars the following day. You brought it up but I'm not one to hold my tongue about 1.60's being possible on goodyears. Ban or close, I'm not bad mouthing but it's blatantly obvious the tech did it on dr's. I want the bone stock zl1 to pull 11.5's@123 for my own agenda as I have a $500 bet with a buddy that someone will this summer. I fear i will lose the bet though. __________________ Silver 03 cobra coupe -Full mm/ftbr chassis, built irs/t56, 3.73s, trutrac -Braces, 6pt, flsc's, brembos, rotary forged sochi's -9.3/1 Livernois 5.3 modular, Diamond, Carrillo etc -FGT heads stage 3 PnP'd, MMR stage 3 turbo grinds -FR500c, custom split maf dual inlet, single blade etc -Comp 62/65 T4's 3xbb, oil/water cooled, blankets etc -CG Fab. ff headers, custom 3" hotside, Tial wastegates -Dual in/out 3" cold side, Tial bov's, Truboost, SCT, NGk -Custom 8qt oil, dual 405s return fuel with id2000's, etc

05-15-2012, 03:32 PM	#282
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 4,145	54/46? 55/45? Neither...it's apparently 56/44... Source: http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-...pecifications/

05-15-2012, 03:39 PM	#284
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 4,145	"Speaking of mass, there will also be a convertible version of the GT500, as before. And though, theoretically, any 2013 Shelby should have the muscle to hit 200 mph, Ford will govern the top speed of the convertible to 155 mph or so, the current Shelby’s speed limit. The heavier convertible has a softer suspension and no rollover hoop. It’s also likely that the Shelby coupe without the Performance and Track packages may be governed, due to cooling issues—the Track package adds engine-, transmission-, and differential-lubricant coolers. After all, SVT says the Shelby coupe weighs 3850 pounds, and its powertrain generates a lot of heat." Source: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-a-bmw-page-2 ...which BTW doesn't bode well for that super-amazing 'Ring time...HEAT SOAK...

05-15-2012, 03:55 PM	#287
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 4,145	Gosh, 03, let's use YOUR numbers: 3850 X .443 = 1705 lb/rear 4120 X .471 = 1941 lb/rear 270 lb. difference...of which 236 favor the ZL1's REAR...let alone it's extra 1.85" touching the ground.