While we speculate about colors, pricing and the "Z28" Did anybody remember this?

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Thanks for bringing me down :(

We're not bringing you down. Some of us want to join the club.

Seriously, you guys are doing a good job of keeping the site under control and focused on what matters to the site theme.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

It won't be locked if we get this discussion back on track.

Basically, the original poster is pointing out that CAFE makes investment in a Z28 project with a V8 very difficult to justify.

Discuss, or lock as mods see fit.

Its up to the members to decide if this gets locked. Have a respectful discussion about the subject and it stays open. Start attacking a party/person and it gets closed.

Please continue the discussion.

[Mindz]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Basically, the original poster is pointing out that CAFE makes investment in a Z28 project with a V8 very difficult to justify.

Hasn't this been proved repeatedly already?

Does this work?? [

We know it's hard to justify.
We know they have thought about it.
We know it will come out if it's possible.
We know that it will be a beast of a machine.

Hi and welcome to the site. Thanks for your input gsxrpilot.

[TAG UR IT]

Back to the OP's post....

If GM can sell enough of the Camaros...like, more than was originally planned, it could be VERY feasible to see a limited production run Z28's. Yes, they would be high dollar. But, they would be available.

We must hope and pray that GM sells enough Camaros. Now...over 6k orders in the first two weeks....and there has been NO real advertising on TV....just auto shows, websites, a single clip in a show, and a movie. And...only one outlet spoken of there (websites) were up to date with info on when to order. Expect a LOT more orders to come in over the next month.

[Hylton]

Unfortunately, we enthusiasts are in the minority when it comes to fuel mileage. Americans do not want to be dumping $100.00 a week into their gas tanks. I am sure that many Congressman were regularily petitioned by people for this bill. People will not realize the impact of this to the manufacturers until they can't get their lawn maintenance guy to come over because of quotas on building new pick-up trucks.

[gsxrpilot]

Ok let me get back in here. The point that I was trying to make was, while people in this forum discuss some of the most "unique" for a better term topics. There is a real issue that approaches. It is a law it is fact. While the price of a barrel of oil continues to fall opec has already stated that they will slow production to keep the balance( cost) correct, For them. As Dragoneye suggested I took my deep breathes and slept on this before reposting. I currently own a 2008 Ford 350 Diesel, That truck on its best day will never see miles in the 30's. Now we are talking about a sports car. The newer corvettes are seeing miles in the upper 20's which is incredible taken what the car is. This though is short of what the government has mandated. The reality is the cars that we want and love very well could be the cars we will not buy in the future! Or will the manufactures have to build the cars for a offroad use only application? (road racing) Does any one watch the racing where the run only alternative fuels? Diesel cars which Americans have yet to embrace knock the snot out of gas/ E85. This was the point I was going for. Good luck with the stripes, Take it easy till the first oil change, and if a electric model come available sign me up! The manufactures did kill the electric car we did. Beacuse as I have read all over here, Its what I want!

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by gsxrpilot

The manufactures did kill the electric car we did. Beacuse as I have read all over here, Its what I want!

Translation please?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Translation please?

I imagine it was a typo. The automakers didn't kill the electric ca, we killed the electric car because we didn't want them.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I imagine it was a typo. The automakers didn't kill the electric ca, we killed the electric car because we didn't want them.

I'm not so sure a blanket statement can be made to say that we don't want an elctric car. I think you can say that we don't want an electric car if it costs 10K more than it's gas version and only get marginally better gas mileage.

So far, it takes 10 years for a Hybrid purchaser to get his investment back. In other words, the Hybrid driver will not be saving any money over the regular gas model purchaser.

Now, this may all change with products such as the Volt. You will pay a premium for this car over it's gas competitor but it may only take 3 to 4 years for the car to start paying off.

Also, this car is a great opportunity for Govts. to wave taxes for anyone who buys a NEW electric car. This will encourage manufacturers to invest in this technology as well as offset the higher cost of the product to the consumer. The more Volts we buy, the cheaper it becomes for GM to build the car and invest in more of this technology.

[camaro&T/A]

Originally Posted by Hylton

I'm not so sure a blanket statement can be made to say that we don't want an elctric car. I think you can say that we don't want an electric car if it costs 10K more than it's gas version and only get marginally better gas mileage.

So far, it takes 10 years for a Hybrid purchaser to get his investment back. In other words, the Hybrid driver will not be saving any money over the regular gas model purchaser.

Now, this may all change with products such as the Volt. You will pay a premium for this car over it's gas competitor but it may only take 3 to 4 years for the car to start paying off.

Also, this car is a great opportunity for Govts. to wave taxes for anyone who buys a NEW electric car. This will encourage manufacturers to invest in this technology as well as offset the higher cost of the product to the consumer. The more Volts we buy, the cheaper it becomes for GM to build the car and invest in more of this technology.

and, if they sell a lot of Volts, their CAFE rating goes up and MAYBE we will see a Z28

[Jamestwilliams]

It's the E85 part I really have a problem with, it causes starvation in third world countries by making food crops a fuel source. The price of basics grains has already tripled thanks in no small part to allowing the oil companies to have control of food crops or I should say the oil traders. This is a far bigger problem than worrying about whether or not we are going to get to keep our muscle cars. At the same time I strongly believe in a consumer driven market, if people want big V8 powered pony/muscle/sports cars they should be allowed to have them they shouldn't be the exclusive domain of the rich which is what Cafe legislation is pushing for.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Hylton

I'm not so sure a blanket statement can be made to say that we don't want an elctric car. I think you can say that we don't want an electric car if it costs 10K more than it's gas version and only get marginally better gas mileage.

So far, it takes 10 years for a Hybrid purchaser to get his investment back. In other words, the Hybrid driver will not be saving any money over the regular gas model purchaser.

Now, this may all change with products such as the Volt. You will pay a premium for this car over it's gas competitor but it may only take 3 to 4 years for the car to start paying off.

Also, this car is a great opportunity for Govts. to wave taxes for anyone who buys a NEW electric car. This will encourage manufacturers to invest in this technology as well as offset the higher cost of the product to the consumer. The more Volts we buy, the cheaper it becomes for GM to build the car and invest in more of this technology.

Originally Posted by camaro&T/A

and, if they sell a lot of Volts, their CAFE rating goes up and MAYBE we will see a Z28

Originally Posted by Jamestwilliams

It's the E85 part I really have a problem with, it causes starvation in third world countries by making food crops a fuel source. The price of basics grains has already tripled thanks in no small part to allowing the oil companies to have control of food crops or I should say the oil traders. This is a far bigger problem than worrying about whether or not we are going to get to keep our muscle cars. At the same time I strongly believe in a consumer driven market, if people want big V8 powered pony/muscle/sports cars they should be allowed to have them they shouldn't be the exclusive domain of the rich which is what Cafe legislation is pushing for.

[DGthe3]

I don't mean to rip into you for this but . . .

Originally Posted by Jamestwilliams

It's the E85 part I really have a problem with, it causes starvation in third world countries by making food crops a fuel source. The price of basics grains has already tripled thanks in no small part to allowing the oil companies to have control of food crops or I should say the oil traders. This is a far bigger problem than worrying about whether or not we are going to get to keep our muscle cars. At the same time I strongly believe in a consumer driven market, if people want big V8 powered pony/muscle/sports cars they should be allowed to have them they shouldn't be the exclusive domain of the rich which is what Cafe legislation is pushing for.

Grains are not used to make E85. Neither are potatoes, apples, tomatoes, or just about any other food crop that went up over the last year. Causing starvation? How about drought in Africa? Food prices have gone up because of all the pesticides and fertilizer that we need to generate such massive crop yields. Guess what those pesticides are made from? Oil. In fact, it takes roughly the equivalent of a gallon of gasoline to get the same energy from corn based ethanol. Also, in the US farmers were paid to not grow corn in order to keep the price from getting too low. Mexico was still flooded with cheap American corn to the point that Mexican farmers couldn't compete and ended up protesting.

In North America, farming is a business not a way of life. Agricorps sell to distributors who sell it to consumers. They are not simply going to be nice and give food to starving people: they are going to sell it to who ever has the money to buy it. If we want to end world hunger we need to get the starving to feed themselves. We don't grow enough to feed them anyway. "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day; Teach a man to fish, feed him for life".

What needs to be done is we need to stop sucking the money out of those countries and reduce the amount of food we buy from them. Let them eat the food that they grow, and we will eat the food that we grow. And we also need to stop selling them crops designed for our mega farms. They don't work in Africa or other places. Instead of genetically engineering terminator seeds, engineer drought resistant crops, or ones that can grow with brackish water.