New Ford Motor- Megazilla?

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, BUT.. Dennis Collins is a very small company compared to GM and for him, it is a good market with the volume he likes to handle. GM while they may make money there has to be some volume to make it worth their wild. Heck look at the Camaro, there are concerns about if we will see a GEN7 Camaro because of slow sales and GM is still making money on the model.

I like the idea but again it's not only the cost. You put an LT4 with that heavy of a ride it will be just like the ZL1 and will have a gas guzzler tax and have an EPA of about 12mpg which by the way killed the ford Lighting back in the day.

I get what you're saying BUT ......

FCA is doing it with the Wrangler and Ram 1500. And GGT only applies to vehicles classified as passenger cars, not trucks or SUVs.

Straight from the EPA website under vehicles subject to gas guzzler tax:

" The Gas Guzzler Tax is assessed on new cars that do not meet required fuel economy levels. These taxes apply only to passenger cars. Trucks, minivans, and sport utility vehicles (SUV) are not covered because these vehicle types were not widely available in 1978 and were rarely used for non-commercial purposes. "

So there is no gas guzzler tax on any Truck, Van, or SUV

Not that the tax itself or the fuel economy (or lack thereof) is an issue for anyone buying anything in the $70k+ price class to begin with. Anyone who can afford that to begin with could easily drive a vehicle that gets 12 mpg on premium as a daily driver for 20,000/yr and never care about fuel prices.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

While it would be cool I don’t think it would be worth GM’s time and wouldn’t be a big seller.

One of the highest selling SUVs on the market is the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Trackhawk is a very low volume seller.

Plus the Tahoe is already on average a $65,000 vehicle now add the additional cost of Bemba brakes, motor, suspension and top it off with the federal gas guzzler tax now you’re over $100,000.00 on a SUV. Don’t think that is going to move off the lot very fast. IMHO

You mean like a Raptor or that new Dodge truck with the Hellcat/Demon motor?

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

You mean like a Raptor or that new Dodge truck with the Hellcat/Demon motor?

Yes the Ram TRX. That's what I was referring to. It's got the 700 hp Hellcat supercharged 6.2L Hemi, and FCA has also confirmed they will in fact start offering the regular 6.2L Hemi from the standard Challenger in the Jeep Wrangler.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Yes the Ram TRX. That's what I was referring to. It's got the 700 hp Hellcat supercharged 6.2L Hemi, and FCA has also confirmed they will in fact start offering the regular 6.2L Hemi from the standard Challenger in the Jeep Wrangler.

Nice.. I didn't know that the Gas Guzzler tax didn't apply to SUV.. Good info

I do think that fuel economy applies to SUV buyers no matter what the cost of the vehicle. It killed the Lighting years ago for that very reason and I can tell you first had it stopped me from buying a Trackhawk.

FCA may offer it but will it pay off in the long run. Look at the Camaro for example, Chevrolet sells very few SS and ZL1 models. Most of their sales are RS V6 equipped units. Who knows if gas prices stay low we might see a Tahoe SS I'm not an expert just taking a guess...LOL

[NeverDie]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Call Collins Brothers Jeep up right now. Tell them you want a Wrangler with a 392 installed. See how long they tell you the waiting list is. If it’s anything less than 6 months I’ll be shocked.

Seriously. Do it and get back to me.

I’m not f’ing around either. Call them. Seriously.

That doesn't have a single thing to do with putting a 7.3L engine in a midsize package. They aren't doing that. What do you think that might prove, other than it's a good business case for JEEP to offer something much smaller?

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

That doesn't have a single thing to do with putting a 7.3L engine in a midsize package. They aren't doing that. What do you think that might prove, other than it's a good business case for JEEP to offer something much smaller?

I fail to see your point. WTF is your point? Fact is Collins has put engines even larger than the 6.2 into the Wrangler. The Bronco is Ford's direct competitor to the Wrangler, that's half the reason they're bringing it back, and they're within mere inches of each other in every dimension. Ford could do it easily, and there is most certainly a market for it.

Not sure what you're getting at.

[NeverDie]

Yeah it's pretty obvious you don't understand the challenges associated with what you're saying.

So, humor me... why would Ford skip over thier 5.0 and 5.2L V8s and go all the way to a 7.3 stuffed between the IFS that the Jeep doesn't have? Hmm?

[s346k]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

Yeah it's pretty obvious you don't understand the challenges associated with what you're saying.

So, humor me... why would Ford skip over thier 5.0 and 5.2L V8s and go all the way to a 7.3 stuffed between the IFS that the Jeep doesn't have? Hmm?

since you are referencing engine size, id wager a bet that the 7.3 is physically smaller in dimension than the coyote, voodoo and predator motors.

[NeverDie]

Interesting. I actually did the research instead of pretend betting with strangers on the internet:

Coyote: 30" wide, 21 3/8" length
Godzilla: 25.5" wide, 24" length

Since this is clearly a longitudinal configuration, the length matters far more for weight distribution as well as crash safety (which is why this won't ever make it into this chassis).

So, agian, why would Ford jump to this gas-guzzling 7.3L that makes less power than the 5.0L? the appeal of the redline being 1500rpm lower? Not giving themselves a chance to pass pedestrian safety regs?

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

So, agian, why would Ford jump to this gas-guzzling 7.3L that makes less power than the 5.0L? the appeal of the redline being 6000rpm lower?

It's a pushrod truck engine. It makes less HP than the 5.0, but 55 lb/ft more torque. It's not supposed to be a race motor, it's designed to make big torque at lower RPMS, be simple to work on, and reliable for fleet service in medium duty trucks.

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

Interesting. I actually did the research instead of pretend betting with strangers on the internet:

Coyote: 30" wide, 21 3/8" length
Godzilla: 25.5" wide, 24" length

Since this is clearly a longitudinal configuration, the length matters far more for weight distribution as well as crash safety (which is why this won't ever make it into this chassis).

So, agian, why would Ford jump to this gas-guzzling 7.3L that makes less power than the 5.0L? the appeal of the redline being 1500rpm lower? Not giving themselves a chance to pass pedestrian safety regs?

Drive a Coyote drive a LT1 exact reason why it makes sense for something off road. RPMs aren't the desire its torque and slow speed control. Now will it happen in the Bronco, I doubt it, but of engines available it actually makes sense for the application.


Some people just need to appreciate a nice TPI 350 for torque every now and then :-)

[s346k]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

So, humor me... why would Ford skip over thier 5.0 and 5.2L V8s and go all the way to a 7.3 stuffed between the IFS that the Jeep doesn't have? Hmm?

Originally Posted by NeverDie

Interesting. I actually did the research instead of pretend betting with strangers on the internet:

Coyote: 30" wide, 21 3/8" length
Godzilla: 25.5" wide, 24" length

Since this is clearly a longitudinal configuration, the length matters far more for weight distribution as well as crash safety (which is why this won't ever make it into this chassis).

so...which side are you taking? first it was a width issue. once proven invalid, it became a length issue.

and what ever happened to good old american competition? maybe ford should/would do it just for fun. i remember when car makers actually cared about (performance) image and had no problem making 1 or 2 models that were not useful for anything except burnouts.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Rodan

It's a pushrod truck engine. It makes less HP than the 5.0, but 55 lb/ft more torque. It's not supposed to be a race motor, it's designed to make big torque at lower RPMS, be simple to work on, and reliable for fleet service in medium duty trucks.

Yup, which is what makes it PERFECT for the Bronco.

In fact, if you can put the 6+1 manual transmission from the base Bronco with the extra low crawler gear to it, then gear down your diffs and transfer case even more, you’re talking about a serious rock crawler!! Go down 15 degree banks at 2-3 mph without touching the brakes. Handle large rocks slow and easy with just a touch of throttle. And if you break down on the trail a set of basic tools can get you back going again.

Everything serious off-roaders really need and want.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by s346k

and what ever happened to good old american competition? maybe ford should/would do it just for fun. i remember when car makers actually cared about (performance) image and had no problem making 1 or 2 models that were not useful for anything except burnouts.

Accountants, attorneys, and politicians killed all the fun in America.