Accident Advice?

[Iwantone2]

I think we recently switched over to State Farm, no complaints yet!!!

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Banshee

Insurance adjusters do this sh*t all the time! They manipulate and coerce people to settle and some get a cut on what they save the insurance companies.

I do not know all the details, but hearing the offender has the same ins. company as your gf is a sure sign or malfeasance and wronging. If it were seperate companies, the likelyhood of this situation occuring is much less.

Absolutely not true, it did happen before and a class action suit was filed and adjusters cannot get a cut out of money saved. Your 1st party medpay coverage has a contractual right to collect money they paid in medpay from any settlement. It's in the contract.

You can't chalk up $10000 in chiro bills from a $500 accident and expect the insurance to cover it (that's an exagerated example for the purposes of illustration only). Without knowing the objective diagnosis, you can't say that the chiro was appropriate or inappropriate.

You don't have a tort against the at fault parties insurance- you have a tort against the at fault party. This is important that you understand, an insurance company only OWES the amount granted by a jury verdict against their insured up to the limits of their policy. Any settlement made prior to that is an effort to save the money that court would cost. They owe 'fair and reasonable' medical expenses determined by a jury- which is not necessarily $ for $. The at-fault parties insurance views you as a legal matter, not a customer service matter.

You are now working toward a pre-trial settlement. The insurance company believes your injury is worth some dollar range based on prior similar cases. They look at you as a legal matter, not customer service. If you are not comfortable negotiating, then yes you should get an attorney. All a claims adjuster is is a trained negotiator.

I take it this is an attorney that you know? That's good, many of the attorneys that advertise for car-wreck litigation are AWFUL and they don't do the work. They farm it to associates who are basically just interns.

[Iwantone2]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

Absolutely not true, it did happen before and a class action suit was filed and adjusters cannot get a cut out of money saved. Your 1st party medpay coverage has a contractual right to collect money they paid in medpay from any settlement. It's in the contract.

You can't chalk up $10000 in chiro bills from a $500 accident and expect the insurance to cover it (that's an exagerated example for the purposes of illustration only). Without knowing the objective diagnosis, you can't say that the chiro was appropriate or inappropriate.

You don't have a tort against the at fault parties insurance- you have a tort against the at fault party. This is important that you understand, an insurance company only OWES the amount granted by a jury verdict against their insured up to the limits of their policy. Any settlement made prior to that is an effort to save the money that court would cost. They owe 'fair and reasonable' medical expenses determined by a jury- which is not necessarily $ for $. The at-fault parties insurance views you as a legal matter, not a customer service matter.

You are now working toward a pre-trial settlement. The insurance company believes your injury is worth some dollar range based on prior similar cases. They look at you as a legal matter, not customer service. If you are not comfortable negotiating, then yes you should get an attorney. All a claims adjuster is is a trained negotiator.

I take it this is an attorney that you know? That's good, many of the attorneys that advertise for car-wreck litigation are AWFUL and they don't do the work. They farm it to associates who are basically just interns.

Very useful information, thank you! I've told my g/f to get any kind of documentation that she can from the chiro in case anything comes up. I know that since it is not my accident, I am definately not comfortable negotiating anything and I don't think that she is either.

Oh yes, defininately! We've known him for over 10 years, he is actually working on my mom's accident case as well.

[MrIcky]

Good luck to you guys, I hope it works out fair. Sorry my note rambled lol.

[Iwantone2]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

Good luck to you guys, I hope it works out fair. Sorry my note rambled lol.

I really appreciate the advice, MrIcky. No need to apologize, the more information we have, the better.

[f_bartram]

Do yourselves a favor and get a lawyer as long as she hasn't signed anything..... It may take longer to get your money or settlement but the way my lawyer done this was took medical bills x 3 and then the money from missing work x 3 and then pain and suffering all this came to around 30k I left with 13k no medical bills and lawyer was payed this whole process took a yr but the insurance at fault wanted to give 5k to me and then I had half to pay back in medical bill cause they didn't pay it all or didn't want to pay it all

[Iwantone2]

Originally Posted by f_bartram

Do yourselves a favor and get a lawyer as long as she hasn't signed anything..... It may take longer to get your money or settlement but the way my lawyer done this was took medical bills x 3 and then the money from missing work x 3 and then pain and suffering all this came to around 30k I left with 13k no medical bills and lawyer was payed this whole process took a yr but the insurance at fault wanted to give 5k to me and then I had half to pay back in medical bill cause they didn't pay it all or didn't want to pay it all

Exactly what is happening now to my g/f.

Hasn't signed or verbally agreed to anything. I'm going to talk to her during my lunch break and advise her accordingly. Thanks!

[Iwantone2]

I wanted to give a big thank you (on behalf of my g/f) to everybody that helped out here!!! She spoke to the chiro yesterday and he said that he would call her back to let her know what he could work out. Unfortunately, she was at work and couldn't take the call so she'll call him back today. I think she's 90% going to call our lawyer and seek assistance through him.

Thanks a bunch everybody

[Nightspore68]

I would get a lawyer to deal with the other person's insurance. If I was dealing with my own insurance, I probably wouldn't, unless it was clear they weren't providing the coverage I had been paying for.
In my experience, my own insurance company (USAA) has been very easy to deal with, while the other drivers' insurance will try to weasel out of compensation. Examples: a woman rear-ended my new Porsche. I dealt with her insurance. Big mistake. They wouldn't reimburse me for the time I missed from work or the diminished value of the car. And they provided the chepaest possible rental while my car was being repaired. I should have hired an attorney. Second example- my wife wrecked my Lexus, hitting a street sign front on. This time I used my insurance. Everything was covered, including the aftermarket invisible shield and new rims and tires, to the tune of nearly 9k. (We didn't bother with a rental.) Amazingly my rates didn't even increase.

[djinva]

Originally Posted by Banshee

Insurance adjusters do this sh*t all the time! They manipulate and coerce people to settle and some get a cut on what they save the insurance companies.

I do not know all the details, but hearing the offender has the same ins. company as your gf is a sure sign or malfeasance and wronging. If it were seperate companies, the likelyhood of this situation occuring is much less.

I am a claims manager at an insurance where I have been employeed for 19 years, no one at our company gets a cut and I do not know of any that do.The above could not be farther from the truth. Please be careful about making inaccurate statements. Please do not downgrade insurance adjustors as a whole, they are like everyone else some are reputable and some are not.

As far as the claim, every state is a little different. Do some research in your state and handle yourself if you are comfortable doing so as there is no need paying an attorney if this is something you can handle. If you are not confortable handling it or can not get it resolved then I would hire an attorney. We evalute claims on their merit no matter who the other company is. When both parties have the same carrier we assign it to different adjustors and have them report to different managers. We do not do anything any different just because we insure both parties. I work in Virginia and there are no subrogation rights for medical expense coverage (your own coverage) from your post it sounds like there is in your state. In Virginia your own carrier will pay the medicals up to the limit of the medical expense coverage. The liability carrier will pay the pain and suffering. If you do not have med exp coverage then you do have to pay the medicals out of your settlement, so be sure the settlement is adquate to do this. In Virginia we do NOT pay the adverse parties medicals direct, they are responsible to be sure these are taken care of by either their medical expense coverage or heath insurance (some heath care carriers also have subrogation rights) or out of the settlement from the liability carrier. As I said before every state is a little different. My area borders West Virginia, North Carlonia, Kentucy and Tennessee and none are the same. Every state also has a Bureau of Insurance that regulates the insurance companies and if you feel they are not treating you fairly you can contact the bureau.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Nightspore68

I would get a lawyer to deal with the other person's insurance. If I was dealing with my own insurance, I probably wouldn't, unless it was clear they weren't providing the coverage I had been paying for.
In my experience, my own insurance company (USAA) has been very easy to deal with, while the other drivers' insurance will try to weasel out of compensation. Examples: a woman rear-ended my new Porsche. I dealt with her insurance. Big mistake. They wouldn't reimburse me for the time I missed from work or the diminished value of the car. And they provided the chepaest possible rental while my car was being repaired. I should have hired an attorney. Second example- my wife wrecked my Lexus, hitting a street sign front on. This time I used my insurance. Everything was covered, including the aftermarket invisible shield and new rims and tires, to the tune of nearly 9k. (We didn't bother with a rental.) Amazingly my rates didn't even increase.

Djinva's on the money in what he says.

The difference in the way you were treated was because you have a contract with your insurance that spells out how they deal with you. The other carrier only owes you what they LEGALLY owe you- which in most states is minimum transportation and missed work is not expensible except as part of an injury claim. You sign up for different levels of service with your own carrier and Customer Service is more important if you're paying their bills. An attorney wouldn't have made a difference at all in your example except in costing you money because these items have been decided by prior court cases- and courts have made efforts to make settlements more reasonable due to the runaway 80's. As far as dimunition of value goes- that's state by state but most states require you to prove that your value was reduced- which usually means selling your vehicle and proving that you lost some dollar amount due to the accident.

I don't mean this in any way negatively toward the person I quoted, I mean this in general. I cannot believe how uninformed people remain about insurance and vehicle accident tort laws considering it is most peoples only contact with civil law.

[Iwantone2]

Originally Posted by Nightspore68

I would get a lawyer to deal with the other person's insurance. If I was dealing with my own insurance, I probably wouldn't, unless it was clear they weren't providing the coverage I had been paying for.
In my experience, my own insurance company (USAA) has been very easy to deal with, while the other drivers' insurance will try to weasel out of compensation. Examples: a woman rear-ended my new Porsche. I dealt with her insurance. Big mistake. They wouldn't reimburse me for the time I missed from work or the diminished value of the car. And they provided the chepaest possible rental while my car was being repaired. I should have hired an attorney. Second example- my wife wrecked my Lexus, hitting a street sign front on. This time I used my insurance. Everything was covered, including the aftermarket invisible shield and new rims and tires, to the tune of nearly 9k. (We didn't bother with a rental.) Amazingly my rates didn't even increase.

thank you, i think we are going to get our lawyer involved in this since neither of us feel comfortable with this.

Originally Posted by djinva

I am a claims manager at an insurance where I have been employeed for 19 years, no one at our company gets a cut and I do not know of any that do.The above could not be farther from the truth. Please be careful about making inaccurate statements. Please do not downgrade insurance adjustors as a whole, they are like everyone else some are reputable and some are not.

As far as the claim, every state is a little different. Do some research in your state and handle yourself if you are comfortable doing so as there is no need paying an attorney if this is something you can handle. If you are not confortable handling it or can not get it resolved then I would hire an attorney. We evalute claims on their merit no matter who the other company is. When both parties have the same carrier we assign it to different adjustors and have them report to different managers. We do not do anything any different just because we insure both parties. I work in Virginia and there are no subrogation rights for medical expense coverage (your own coverage) from your post it sounds like there is in your state. In Virginia your own carrier will pay the medicals up to the limit of the medical expense coverage. The liability carrier will pay the pain and suffering. If you do not have med exp coverage then you do have to pay the medicals out of your settlement, so be sure the settlement is adquate to do this. In Virginia we do NOT pay the adverse parties medicals direct, they are responsible to be sure these are taken care of by either their medical expense coverage or heath insurance (some heath care carriers also have subrogation rights) or out of the settlement from the liability carrier. As I said before every state is a little different. My area borders West Virginia, North Carlonia, Kentucy and Tennessee and none are the same. Every state also has a Bureau of Insurance that regulates the insurance companies and if you feel they are not treating you fairly you can contact the bureau.

Could you please explain the bolded part above?

[djinva]

Here is the legal definition:

SUBROGATE - If one person performs a duty of another, they are then "equitable subrogated" to the rights of the person owed the duty. The most common form of subrogation is when an insurance company pays a claim caused by the negligence of another.

The act of putting by a transfer, a person in the place of another, or a thing in the place of another thing. It is the substitution of a new for an old creditor, and the succession to his rights, which is called subrogation; transfusio unius creditoris in alium. It is precisely the reverse of delegation.

There are three kinds of subrogation: 1. That made by the owner of a thing of his own free will; example, when be voluntarily assigns it. 2. That which arises in consequence of the law, even without the consent of the owner; example, when a man pays a debt which could not be properly called his own, but which nevertheless it was his interest to pay, or which he might have been compelled to pay for another, the law subrogates him to all the rights of the creditor. 3. That which arises by the act of law joined to the act of the debtor; as, when the debtor borrows money expressly to pay off his debt, and with the intention of substituting the lender in the place of the old creditor.
--b--

Laymens terms it is the right of the insurance company to go after the responsible party for reimbursement for what they have paid out. Most states have sub for medical expense coverage or personal injury coverage, Virginia does not, I am not sure about your state. If the accident happened in VA you could use your medical expense coverage to pay the bills and keep all of the settlement from the liabilty carrier. Do a little research so you know how things work in your state. As I said before if you are not confortable consult an attorney.

[Iwantone2]

Originally Posted by djinva

Laymens terms it is the right of the insurance company to go after the responsible party for reimbursement for what they have paid out. Most states have sub for medical expense coverage or personal injury coverage, Virginia does not, I am not sure about your state. If the accident happened in VA you could use your medical expense coverage to pay the bills and keep all of the settlement from the liabilty carrier. Do a little research so you know how things work in your state. As I said before if you are not confortable consult an attorney.

Thanks for the definition. One thing that I am really confused about now (and I should have asked my g/f yesterday) is who the heck is paying the chiro bill.

I think the first person she was talking to was from the other person's side of Liberty Mutual and they were the ones that were saying that she would have to pay the excess chiro bill out of her settlement. The letter she received was from her side of liberty saying that if she got any sort of settlement, she would have to reimburse them. if she has to reimburse them, does that mean that they are paying the chiro bills?

WTF is going on?!?!?

i guess i'm just ranting