My son is struggling...........

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I don't consider honors, and AP classes a mistake. Truth is, it takes a lot of work to succeed....these classes pay off in the end. I got out of 3 classes in college, while still receiving credit for them. I know very FEW people who get awfully low grades in those classes...BUT......and this coming from a teacher-to-be:

If you're son is getting consistently lower grades than 85 (when trying hard to succeed) - pull him out. This is a goal EVERY student should reach towards, and is considered "mastery". If it's lower, then he's not suited for the class. It doesn't mean he's dumb, or that he's quitting, it just means it wasn't for him. Everybody's different.

My advise? Spend lots, lots, lots, lots of time after class with the teacher (if the teacher cooperates) and go over everything he's having trouble with.

Second, and most importantly: ASK QUESTIONS...this is the #1 mistakes students make. They're self-conscious, or afraid, or whatever to ask questions in class...and then they struggle. The teacher is there for that reason; so use it!! "The only stupid question is the one not asked." If you don't ask, you'll never find out.

Good luck.

my SAT scores got me out of english and math classes.

Same difference to me

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by Windy City

Most of the successful people in the world never finished college.

You sure about that?

[Rtoups]

Similar to Xanthos, I was an underachiever, but a very smart one. I never took the ACT, but I took the SAT once and scored a 2210 (translated into ACT scoring, that is about a 34, although they are hard to compare), but as of the end of last year, I had a 3.1 GPA. So how does something like this happen?

It was a combination of stuff. First, I'm diagnosed ADHD. However, I did not discover this until halfway through my Sophomore year. Whenever someone without ADHD asks me what it is like, I liken it to having a TV that is constantly changing channels, and you are unable to turn it off. The medicine I received from my doctor fixed the TV and gave me the remote. However, even after being prescribed medication, it took almost a whole year to get the dosages right as to balance the beneficial effects of the medicine with the side effects, which made me constantly thirsty, left me with no appetite (technically anorexia, since I would literally look at food and feel sick at the thought of eating it), and insomnia so severe that I was lucky to get 5 hours of sleep. So it wasn't until my junior year that I was able to control my ADHD. But by then, more then half of my high school education experience had suffered beyond repair.

Second, I have a twin brother. My twin does not have ADHD. He does not have a 3.1 GPA. He is extremely intelligent, extremely motivated, has a 4.8 GPA and is applying to Standford, Yale, and several other schools of similar caliber. Even though his GPA was always like...double mine, it never really affected me. However, it did affect my parents, who both held Masters Degrees in Engineering (my father had a civil engineering degree, my mom a mechanical), wanted me to be like my brother. They did not tolerate my sub-par grades. Anything below an A was just unacceptable. In a private school, one of the best in California at that, it was not an easy task to get A's. With my ADHD (this was before my diagnosis), it was damn near impossible. I eventually became so discouraged that I basically stopped doing my homework. My thought process was, "If I can't get A's and make them happy, there's just no point".

By my Sophomore year, my life was quickly spiraling out of control. Faltering from pressure from my parents, school, and peers, depression grabbed hold of my life and robbed me of any happiness I use to have. I no longer wanted to hang out with friends or do anything except sit in my room and sleep.

The reason I am telling you all of this, even though it is very personal, is because I would never want another kid to have to go through what I did. My life is much better now, thanks to outside help from psychologists and doctors, however, there are 2 years of my life that I will never get back. If I didn't get that help, I probably would have turned to drug use, or even worse, suicide, as an escape.

I guess what I am saying it, don't be hard on your son. Not EVERYONE is meant for honors or AP classes. Maybe the regular classes are best for him. My biggest concern is your fear that he will be taking the easy way out. Please, I beg of you, do not let him know that you feel that way. My father didn't get that warning, and every time he let me know that my sub-par grades were inadequate, it hurt me very deeply. Even with all the help I got, my life is still far from perfect. I can still tell that my father is disappointed that I don't have a 4.0 GPA. My own mother treats me like the retarded child because I'm prone to depression and I have ADHD. Every time I detect that disappointment from my parents, I remember the two years of my high school, years that were supposed to be highlights of my life but instead represented the lowest I had ever felt, and I realize that I have a wound that will never heal.

[Windy City]

Yes, I have done very well for myself and never attended one day of college. Not saying that will work for everyone and everything, but neither does college.
I have met loads of "over educated" people. They have spent years and years going to school, only to end up a Realtor. Also tons of people who attended college and got a job that had nothing to do with there degree.
If you can't self start or apply knowledge, this is a bigger issue than if you can ace an honors class.

[TJTKSDMJ8]

Originally Posted by Rtoups

Similar to Xanthos, I was an underachiever, but a very smart one. I never took the ACT, but I took the SAT once and scored a 2210 (translated into ACT scoring, that is about a 34, although they are hard to compare), but as of the end of last year, I had a 3.1 GPA. So how does something like this happen?

It was a combination of stuff. First, I'm diagnosed ADHD. However, I did not discover this until halfway through my Sophomore year. Whenever someone without ADHD asks me what it is like, I liken it to having a TV that is constantly changing channels, and you are unable to turn it off. The medicine I received from my doctor fixed the TV and gave me the remote. However, even after being prescribed medication, it took almost a whole year to get the dosages right as to balance the beneficial effects of the medicine with the side effects, which made me constantly thirsty, left me with no appetite (technically anorexia, since I would literally look at food and feel sick at the thought of eating it), and insomnia so severe that I was lucky to get 5 hours of sleep. So it wasn't until my junior year that I was able to control my ADHD. But by then, more then half of my high school education experience had suffered beyond repair.

Second, I have a twin brother. My twin does not have ADHD. He does not have a 3.1 GPA. He is extremely intelligent, extremely motivated, has a 4.8 GPA and is applying to Standford, Yale, and several other schools of similar caliber. Even though his GPA was always like...double mine, it never really affected me. However, it did affect my parents, who both held Masters Degrees in Engineering (my father had a civil engineering degree, my mom a mechanical), wanted me to be like my brother. They did not tolerate my sub-par grades. Anything below an A was just unacceptable. In a private school, one of the best in California at that, it was not an easy task to get A's. With my ADHD (this was before my diagnosis), it was damn near impossible. I eventually became so discouraged that I basically stopped doing my homework. My thought process was, "If I can't get A's and make them happy, there's just no point".

By my Sophomore year, my life was quickly spiraling out of control. Faltering from pressure from my parents, school, and peers, depression grabbed hold of my life and robbed me of any happiness I use to have. I no longer wanted to hang out with friends or do anything except sit in my room and sleep.

The reason I am telling you all of this, even though it is very personal, is because I would never want another kid to have to go through what I did. My life is much better now, thanks to outside help from psychologists and doctors, however, there are 2 years of my life that I will never get back. If I didn't get that help, I probably would have turned to drug use, or even worse, suicide, as an escape.

I guess what I am saying it, don't be hard on your son. Not EVERYONE is meant for honors or AP classes. Maybe the regular classes are best for him. My biggest concern is your fear that he will be taking the easy way out. Please, I beg of you, do not let him know that you feel that way. My father didn't get that warning, and every time he let me know that my sub-par grades were inadequate, it hurt me very deeply. Even with all the help I got, my life is still far from perfect. I can still tell that my father is disappointed that I don't have a 4.0 GPA. My own mother treats me like the retarded child because I'm prone to depression and I have ADHD. Every time I detect that disappointment from my parents, I remember the two years of my high school, years that were supposed to be highlights of my life but instead represented the lowest I had ever felt, and I realize that I have a wound that will never heal.

Wow.. Sorry to hear that... With all due respect, makes me wonder about my kids and the pressures I put on them under

Sincerely, Thanks for sharing...

[CamaroScotty]

Just support him in whatever he does, and that you support him in his decisions. my 15 year old is in regular classes, but is mostly an A student, at the 8th ranked High School in WI. Kind of unique, because of the electives...

I'll take job stress every day over the "school" stress I lived through.

Supportive with his decisions is the key (I think)

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I don't consider honors, and AP classes a mistake. Truth is, it takes a lot of work to succeed....these classes pay off in the end.

Well said Dragoneye. I can imagine what my boss would say if I told him I needed an easier job because this one was too hard. The world doesn't work that way.

I'm sure PQ will do the right thing for HIS son, it's interesting to see all the different opinions on this topic though.

[1320junkie]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

You sure about that?

most millionaires and billionaires dont...on the AP classes my daughter was struggling a little in Trig and she took it upon herself to go in before and stay after school to get that grade up..which she did...It's my daughters Senior year and she has already been accepted at Emory...and her honors/ap classes help her skip some of her core courses her freshman year in college.

[Rtoups]

Originally Posted by TJTKSDMJ8

Wow.. Sorry to hear that... With all due respect, makes me wonder about my kids and the pressures I put on them under

Sincerely, Thanks for sharing...

No problem. I have no issue with sharing my story, as I just want to help others reach a decision.

I think I should clarify my position. There is nothing wrong with pushing your kid to do his or her best. I think that is very reasonable. However, not everyone is designed to get A's in honor classes. I certainly wasn't. The key is being able to recognize this and be supportive about whatever route your child takes.

[TJTKSDMJ8]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Well said Dragoneye. I can imagine what my boss would say if I told him I needed an easier job because this one was too hard. The world doesn't work that way.

I'm sure PQ will do the right thing for HIS son, it's interesting to see all the different opinions on this topic though.

I see your point, but at what cost? Universities care about(much like our careers) what do you bring to the table. I don't think it's limiting his potential, if anything, it's allowing him to succeed on a psychological level. You beat him down now, he may get turned off to post high school education. I know it's his choice, but would you rather get into a University that was not your first choice based on mediocre grades, or the one you wanted on great grades. We all know that grades, at the end of the day mean nothing in the real world. Once you begin your career, it makes no difference what you did in Junior English. So in my opinion, now a days, kids have to feel good about themselves.


Sometimes it's better to get a first down 3-4 yards at a time than to try to go for 10 everytime you hike the ball.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

my SAT scores got me out of english and math classes.

Same difference to me

You're right. There are other ways to achieve.

But that doesn't diminish the classes. My SATs got me out of an english class...they weren't stellar, however -- and so they helped me no more than that. Everyone is different, and there is no "right" when it comes to education. Some people are horrible at tests...some excel at them. Here, the AP classes come in and balance that out.

Some people don't need college, others do...and still, others are destined to be "professional students".

Some people can take AP classes and do okay, others have other things on their plate, and have difficulty balancing everything. This is OKAY...and should not be discouraged, or negatively approached:

EEEEverybody is different. The day we try to stick everybody in the same mold for education is the day we've utterly failed at it.

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

most millionaires and billionaires dont....

I respectfully disagree with you junkie. Aside from Bill Gates I don't think most people could name five non college educated billionaires (without the use of google) . I think "most" is just an inappropriate term for this. Statics have proven time and again that people in the higher earning brackets are university educated, you just don't hear about them because they're not unique.

Obviously there are exceptions but to suggest that PQ should take his kid out of honors courses because "most" million and billionaires are uneducated just isn't a fair statement.

PQ you opened a can of worms with this one!

[1320junkie]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

I respectfully disagree with you junkie. Aside from Bill Gates I don't think most people could name five non college educated billionaires (without the use of google) . I think "most" is just an inappropriate term for this. Statics have proven time and again that people in the higher earning brackets are university educated, you just don't hear about them because they're not unique.

Obviously there are exceptions but to suggest that PQ should take his kid out of honors courses because "most" million and billionaires are uneducated just isn't a fair statement.

PQ you opened a can of worms with this one!

lol i just read it in USA today this week thats why I chimed in on that one.
Frank Lyod Wright, Ty Warner, Rachel Ray, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Milton Hershye,Debbie Fields,,umm Walt Disney, Henry Ford, Debbie Fields, Barry Diller, Michael Dell,Mary Kay Ash, Richard Branson, Coco Chanel,..the list goes on and on..just because the mainstream hasnt heard of them doesnt mean they are not out there..I for one still believe in education. here is a site with quite a few listed in alphabetical order
http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/index.htm

[UCI CamaroFan]

get a tutor and try to find a way to motivate him.

**IF IT IS AP, MAKE SURE HE STICKS WITH IT!**

if it is just honors, make sure he sticks with it, because if he does well here, he can go onto an AP class. getting AP classes and doing well in AP classes will allow him to go to a good college.

good tutors cost money, but are worth it. maybe try and find one where there is a group session... so he can learn from the mistakes of others.

This is coming from a college student who works part time for the university as a tutor. (I tutor other college kids)