Ok let me vent..

[TFord]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Yep. Helped out on an acc where biker lost his head.

Old friends face was smashed flat after avoiding the car that pulled out in front of him. He was like a baby again for months. Eventually, he got back to his old self. But, the scars are there for life.

Other friend wrecked out and went flying over a guardrail striking his hip on a wooden post holding up the guardrail. Well, he broke his pelvis in front and back (snapped on both side). Airlifed out to hosp and now is better....but has 20K left in hosp bills....

IF you were to get one, be careful!!! And, sorry to hear about the Camaro. I'd try to hold onto it, get it fixed, and hold off for the 5th Gen.

my god brother got drug for over a mile by a semi before he realized he'd hit him...scars are forever

[camaro5]

Every make and model has owners with problems and owners w/o problems. It's a question of odds and defects per 100 units.

You are convincing me to buy Japenese again. Maybe the Infiniti dealer is still open tonight...

I just want GM to raise their horrible overall quality. I want to hear about American auto jobs being added, not more layoffs and plant closings.

Deal with reality! Or not - ignorance is bliss, right?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Every make and model has owners with problems and owners w/o problems. It's a question of odds and defects per 100 units.

Believe it or not...GM's vehicles ARE up there in quality. It's the perception that they're not. Your '84 was a....'84. Anyone can tell you that the Big 3 didn't have the best products back then. And I won't argue that point, because there's not much to argue. I will argue that American cars still suck. 'Cause they don't. For instance, Buick tied Lexus for the top ranking in PP100 last year.

Originally Posted by camaro5

I just want GM to raise their horrible overall quality. I want to hear about American auto jobs being added, not more layoffs and plant closings.

Again, it's they don't have HORRIBLE quality. They aren't perfect, but overall quality is only slightly below average (and rising, see: Malibu) quality (according to JDPower)

(infinity and Chevrolet only differ by 11 PP100.....)
(and 3 American brands rank in the top 5...two of them GM brands: Buick, Lexus, Cadillac, Mercury, and Honda)

The jobs, and the layoffs.....the blame for that can be sent over to all the import companies that everyone thinks are so great. They have the advantage when it comes to tax breaks, labor costs, tariffs...the Big 3 don't. This makes it incredibly difficult to sell a product in our market. And in many cases, our Auto companies find incentives to send jobs overseas.

They don't WANT to send jobs, or close plants...but it's being made more and more of a necessity if they want to remain in business. Thank the government's poor handling of the import v. export situation, and the foreign companys' unfair advantages over the Big 3.

Another point to consider is efficiency. It's becoming increasingly easy to automate the process. In order to cut costs to compete with the imports...closing plants, and making it cheaper to build cars and trucks must be done.

The 2007 PP100 results.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...df/2007130.pdf

We'll see in June what the results are for this year.


I'm not trying to tear you apart for liking Imports better...I mean, your story isn't all that unique. Lots of people have 'abandoned' the US automakers. Where you differ is with the willingness to try them out again. For that, you get:

[camaro5]

Thanks Dragon - That's good info. Consumer Reports Readers don't agree as much, but quality is greatly improved.

I read the JD Power info and it looks great. Truthfully, I thought about it, and there's only one car I really want. The new Camaro. Nothing else turns me on.

The Pontiac G8 is tempting me, it's on the same Zeta platform and getting stellar reviews. But, I must try to hold out for Camaro.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the Camaro will be built in GM's Oshawa, Ontario plant. They have received JD Power's highest initial quality in North America award. And Consumer Reports readers reported that the models built there previously (Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick Lucerne) were well assembled vehicles.

I needed some reasonable positive input, thanks


Here's some interesting info from Consumer Reports:



April 2008

Reliability trends
Our latest survey tracks a decade's worth of trouble


Reliability remains a forte for most Japanese brands. Twenty-three of the 33 models in our “most reliable” list are from Japanese automakers. Moreover, we’ve predicted average reliability or better for all Honda and Subaru models based on our most recent survey.

This year’s forecast shows that domestic models, led by Ford, continue to improve and that there are small improvements in European makes as well.

Toyota’s previously sterling reliability has slipped a bit, and two Toyota models, the V6 Camry and the four-wheel-drive, V8 version of the Tundra, have below-average reliability in their 2007 redesign. The all-wheel-drive version of the Lexus GS also dropped below average. We now predict below-average reliability for all three models and can no longer recommend them.

Other news from our latest survey:


Despite Toyota's problems, the automaker still ranks third overall in reliability, behind only Honda and Subaru, with 11 models in the best list. Honda has six with a smaller model lineup.


Only three domestic models made the Most reliable list: the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, and the two-wheel-drive Ford F-150 with the V6 engine. U.S. makes, however, account for almost half the models—25 of 44—on the Least reliable list. There are 13 from GM, 6 from Chrysler, and 1 from Ford.


European makes account for 17 models on the Least reliable list. This includes six each from Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi.

[stovt001]

It should be pointed out that Consumer Reports has already decided what brands are reliable and what ones aren't, and so their reliability ratings are based off of those preconceived conclusions rather than actual results. With most "Imports are perfect, Domestics suck" people, they only drove a domestic in the late 70s, early 80s and had a bad experience, then drove Japanese products ever since and never bothered to see if anything changed. They assume it hasn't and still insist American cars suck. A good number of people are coming around, but it takes time. Even consumer reports is beginning to reconsider its blanket approval of anything Japanese after the Toyota summer of endless recalls (I worked at a Toyota dealership during that. What a nightmare) and the Tundra failure. Honda and Mazda are still doing OK, but the lines aren't as clear-cut as they used to be.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by stovt001

It should be pointed out that Consumer Reports has already decided what brands are reliable and what ones aren't, and so their reliability ratings are based off of those preconceived conclusions rather than actual results. With most "Imports are perfect, Domestics suck" people, they only drove a domestic in the late 70s, early 80s and had a bad experience, then drove Japanese products ever since and never bothered to see if anything changed. They assume it hasn't and still insist American cars suck. A good number of people are coming around, but it takes time. Even consumer reports is beginning to reconsider its blanket approval of anything Japanese after the Toyota summer of endless recalls (I worked at a Toyota dealership during that. What a nightmare) and the Tundra failure. Honda and Mazda are still doing OK, but the lines aren't as clear-cut as they used to be.

Just plain wrong-
Consumer Reports results are based on surveys sent to readers in the mail or online. You tell them what you own and ask you to check off any problem areas. Sometimes they will project, but they have masses of solid survey data. Check things out before making false statements. My whole purpose of bringing all this up is so the new Camaro will be a world beater. They are deciding now whether to spend 1 dollar on a part that is pretty reliable, or 1.50 on avery reliable part. I'm just saying choose the better, more reliable part.

[stovt001]

That's what they tell you, but after the multiple parts failures on the new Tundra (camshafts, tailgates, transmissions...am I forgetting some?) it actually was revealed that Consumer reports had been giving Toyota automatic recommendations and top quality marks based on reputation rather than facts for a long time. I'll try to look up the article... Also, add that to the whole child seat scam (consumer reports tested the seats at far higher speeds than advertised, then bashed the companies based on the flawed results) and it is pretty clear that Consumer Reports is about as neutral as Michael Moore. They have a very clear agenda, whether it is to promote Toyota or scare the crap out of consumers to boost sales.

Edit: link to article on Toyota's crappy reliability and Consumer Report's bias: http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/10/...er-report.html

[camaro5]

I see what you're saying about them previously assuming a new Toyota was reliable. But the fact is, they were previously correct for years. Then Toyota expanded too much, too fast and there goes the quality. Consumer Reports is the entity pointing all this out! They're frying Toyota in the headlines and you say they're promoting them...Sad

[CamaroSpike23]

soo.....jeff

did you get your car checked out?

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

soo.....jeff

did you get your car checked out?

Yep. Luckily my dad is friends with some people who build all of his transmissions for the prostock cars he builds.. Got a deal of only 950 dollars including tax to rebuild the entire trans. Instead of the 1200 dollars from another shop or the 1500 from the dealer. Oh and thats the cost to get it completely REBUILT. I have more than enough money, just it sucks having to use some of my savings that I'm going to use for my 5th gen..

As for the bike. I planned everything out, going to be able to get it. (delayed though.) Gonna keep that bike until December and sell it. Thats going to be the down payment for the new Camaro. So in the end I'll have a GMC Sierra, a 4th gen Z28 Camaro fully modded (both completely paid off already), and a new 5th gen Camaro only being 19 years old.. Plus I have a 250 4 stroke 2005 Honda dirtbike worth at least 4 grand.. (Worked for that cash last summer as a life guard.) Just hopefully the Camaro doesn't screw up more. If you think about it.. The car is a 93 with the LT1. Its 15 years old and runs meaner than when it was new.. SO I shouldn't complain too much, I just wish so many problems wouldn't happen so close together.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by swazworth

what Ducati did you have? i have a 97 750 monster, i love that bike. i really want the new 1098, but i would rather get a new camaro.

i haven't rode in awhile i need to get my 12k work done on it and buy tires, the shop quoted me like $1200 for all the work. that is a big hit to my camaro fund. so it sits in my garage just waiting.

A 2002 900 Monster. It was mean bro.. dropping the clutch from 3rd to 4th with the RPM's barely raised and that sucker would pop up like nothing. When I cracked on the throttle just barely it would take off and felt like the front wheel was on ice. I'm sure if I do get this Suzuki its going to feel like a pos as far as speed\power lol.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Yep. Luckily my dad is friends with some people who build all of his transmissions for the prostock cars he builds.. Got a deal of only 950 dollars including tax to rebuild the entire trans. Instead of the 1200 dollars from another shop or the 1500 from the dealer. Oh and thats the cost to get it completely REBUILT. I have more than enough money, just it sucks having to use some of my savings that I'm going to use for my 5th gen..

cool, glad you got it worked out. now you know who to take your 5th gen when you blow the tranny from too many burnouts! lol

[Jeff]

^^ Na man. I'm only going to be getting on the new Camaro hard when I come across a dude in a Stang or Ricer thinking their hard. Lol. & I'm planning to put a lotttt of mods on it