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Old 02-20-2013, 05:55 PM   #15
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An engine does not need a valve spring with a Desmodromic valve system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willhe64 View Post
Lot's of tech like that has been looked at. None of it ends up in production because it adds nothing but cost.

That system has many flaws I can see off the bat.

First he talks about the space savings of the size of the head, an inch in height and 2 inches in length. Whoop dee doo, what about the GIANT STEEL AIR TANK.

You are adding all that complexity (acutator, air pump, air lines, tank and some sort of timing system, to replace this:


I can't see it running in any sort of performance application. Did you see the example running on the bench, that was about a 1/4" of valve lift. On a tiny valve. You'd need massive air pressure to operate a large valve at high lifts and be able to hold it seated against combustion pressures.
Eh. Not really. The beauty of something like this is the same reason people run marine cams, think they are God of tuning, and wear out the valvetrain 5 miles later and rounding off the camshaft because it was too aggressive on angle. A valve that could fully open and close in a non-linear fashion would be quite incredible, and a main reason for this setup. As said in the video, the equivalent of a square camshaft. Incredible.

On the flip side, with the piston spinning around the crank, the valve does kinda need to open and close slowly, but the freedom of controlling that in a non-linear fashion..mind blowingly cool...there are going to be some huge developments from that, and kudos to Koenigsegg for thinking very very far outside the box, and developing this. Very very cool.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:26 PM   #17
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This will first be on exotic cars, then it will go to the top end BMW's or Mercedes and a decade or so after, regular consumer cars will get it. Good thing its being researched!
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:02 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by justa25thTA View Post
He did say that with just a retrofit of the existing motor they were getting 30% better kpg with almost two years and 60k km of use.
Yes, but I'm betting he got 30% better mileage with 50% less power.

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A valve that could fully open and close in a non-linear fashion would be quite incredible, and a main reason for this setup. As said in the video, the equivalent of a square camshaft. Incredible.
Yes it would, but using air to power this is not the answer.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:59 AM   #19
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Cam less and valve less sounds like a two-stroke engine.
Sort of, but it's still a 4-stroke engine. Instead of using a cam to control the opening and closing of the valves, he's implementing a linear actuator. And that linear actuator can be controlled electronically to open and close. That means you can tune the engine, change when and how the valves open and close without having to swap cams.

Want to change cam lift and duration on the fly? No problem.

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Originally Posted by upflying View Post
An engine does not need a valve spring with a Desmodromic valve system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve
True, but with that system you'd still need a rotating cam assembly to control when that valve opens and closes. That's more rotating mass that cannot be reconfigured without tearing the engine apart to swap out cams.

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Yes it would, but using air to power this is not the answer.
It's not like the valve needs to open when the piston is at full compression. I don't see why you think the pressure required to open each valve would have to be so ridiculously high...

In fact, wouldn't it have to incorporate a bit of negative lift to keep the valves from opening automatically when the piston is on its down-stroke?
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:05 AM   #20
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It's the velocitys and speeds required that will hit a performance wall. Air actuators have been around since the steam engine. We use nothing but them in the equipment at a Sawmill I used to work at. If this was a viable solution it would have been in use for at least 30 years now.

That whole video screamed smoke and mirrors to me. Like I said, Whoop deee do. They made a tiny valve move back and forth against zero opposing forces. You could have done that with an electric solenoid.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:11 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter View Post
In fact, wouldn't it have to incorporate a bit of negative lift to keep the valves from opening automatically when the piston is on its down-stroke?
And a lot of negative lift to keep the valve from opening during the power stroke. People don't realize how much that force is. My buddy had to use 750lb valve springs in his blown alcohol door slammer because the valves were being forced open by the ignition pressure. Even a stock engine has 150lbs of closed seat pressure.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:21 AM   #22
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F1 cars use pneumatic valves, but they are basically only a vacuum chamber used to only help the valve close faster, and they still contain a spring inside them and use a camshaft.

Renault is in development of a hydraulic system. But again, these guys are trying to get past the 18,000 rpm limit on current tech.

None of this tech will ever see production cars. You are adding a ton of complexity that is un-needed.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:22 AM   #23
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I didnt watch the video but I asume they are using some kind of pneumatic system to control the valves? Formula 1 cars use something like that, I think.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:16 PM   #24
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GM, Toyota, and Suzuki had a cam less system about fifteen years back but decided the technology was not there for longevity. I believe if I remember right the most common cause of failure was stem and seat failures then - does anyone remember what magazine that was in?
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:19 PM   #25
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found patent filings from a lot of people for different systems

Cited PatentFiling dateIssue dateOriginal AssigneeTitleUS4200067May 1, 1978Apr 29, 1980General Motors CorporationHydraulic valve actuator and fuel injection systemUS4206728May 1, 1978Jun 10, 1980General Motors CorporationHydraulic valve actuator systemUS4715330Apr 11, 1986Dec 29, 1987
Electromagnetically-actuated positioning mechanismUS4715332Apr 11, 1986Dec 29, 1987
Electromagnetically-actuated positioning systemUS4721075Dec 12, 1986Jan 26, 1988Honda Giken Kogyo Kabushiki KaishaDiesel engineUS4785787Apr 20, 1987Nov 22, 1988Kloeckner-Humboldt-Deutz AGFuel injection mechanism for an internal combustion engineUS4791895May 18, 1987Dec 20, 1988Interatom GmbHElectro-magnetic-hydraulic valve drive for internal combustion enginesUS4899700Feb 8, 1988Feb 13, 1990Magnavox Government and Electronic CompanyPneumatically powered valve actuatorUS5022358Jul 24, 1990Jun 11, 1991North American Philips CorporationLow energy hydraulic actuatorUS5117790Feb 19, 1991Jun 2, 1992Caterpillar Inc.Engine operation using fully flexible valve and injection eventsUS5125370Jun 18, 1990Jun 30, 1992Isuzu Ceramics Research Institute Co., Ltd.Control system for electromagnetically driven valveUS5125807Apr 2, 1990Jun 30, 1992Kloeckner-Humboldt-Deutz AGFuel injection deviceUS5237968Nov 4, 1992Aug 24, 1993Caterpillar Inc.Apparatus for adjustably controlling valve movement and fuel injectionUS5237976Dec 17, 1992Aug 24, 1993Caterpillar Inc.Engine combustion systemUS5248123Dec 11, 1991Sep 28, 1993North American Philips CorporationPilot operated hydraulic valve actuatorUS5341787Sep 1, 1993Aug 30, 1994Firma Carl FreudenbergElectromagnetically operated valveUS5622152Jul 5, 1995Apr 22, 1997Mitsubishi Jidosha Kogyo Kabushiki KaishaPressure storage fuel injection systemReferenced by

Citing PatentFiling dateIssue dateOriginal AssigneeTitleUS6510825Sep 24, 2001Jan 28, 2003Magneti Marelli Powertrain S.p.A.Internal combustion engine for motor vehicles and the likeUS6532937May 11, 2001Mar 18, 2003Robert Bosch GmbHFuel injection system for an internal combustion engineUS6557506Oct 15, 2001May 6, 2003Sturman Industries, Inc.Hydraulically controlled valve for an internal combustion engineUS6631699Dec 20, 2001Oct 14, 2003Siemens VDO Automative CorporationAir fuel moduleUS6739293Jun 5, 2002May 25, 2004Sturman Industries, Inc.Hydraulic valve actuation systems and methodsUS6739294Jun 13, 2003May 25, 2004General Motors CorporationManifold for housing high-pressure oil in a camless engineUS6848400Feb 14, 2002Feb 1, 2005Robert Bosch GmbHGas exchange valve mechanism for an internal combustion engineUS6866204Apr 4, 2002Mar 15, 2005Siemens VDO Automotive CorporationEnd of valve motion detection for a spool control valveUS6868829Jul 23, 2003Mar 22, 2005Andreas Stihl AG & Co. KGMaximum speed limitation for a two-cycle engineUS7001158Jan 24, 2003Feb 21, 2006Sturman Industries, Inc.Digital fluid pumpUS7025326Jul 11, 2003Apr 11, 2006Sturman Industries, Inc.Hydraulic valve actuation methods and apparatusUS7108200May 28, 2004Sep 19, 2006Sturman Industries, Inc.Fuel injectors and methods of fuel injectionUS7182068Sep 26, 2005Feb 27, 2007Sturman Industries, Inc.Combustion cell adapted for an internal combustion engineUS7204212Jan 12, 2005Apr 17, 2007Temic Automotive of North America, Inc.Camless engine hydraulic valve actuated systemUS7341028Mar 15, 2005Mar 11, 2008Sturman Industries, Inc.Hydraulic valve actuation systems and methods to provide multiple lifts for one or more engine air valvesUS7387095Apr 8, 2005Jun 17, 2008Sturman Industries, Inc.Hydraulic valve actuation systems and methods to provide variable lift for one or more engine air valvesUS7401483Mar 30, 2005Jul 22, 2008Strattec Security CorporationResidual magnetic devices and methods for an ignition actuation blockage deviceUS7412969Mar 13, 2007Aug 19, 2008Sturman Industries, Inc.Direct needle control fuel injectors and methodsUS7717130May 17, 2007May 18, 2010Purdue Research FoundationFast-acting fluid control valveUS7717359May 9, 2008May 18, 2010Sturman Digital Systems, LLCMultiple intensifier injectors with positive needle control and methods of injectionUS7730858Jun 9, 2008Jun 8, 2010Sturman Industries, Inc.Hydraulic valve actuation systems and methods to provide variable lift for one or more engine air valvesUS7969705Mar 30, 2005Jun 28, 2011Strattec Security CorporationResidual magnetic devices and methodsUS8149557Jun 27, 2011Apr 3, 2012Strattec Security CorporationResidual magnetic devices and methodsUS8191518Feb 27, 2006Jun 5, 2012Artemis Intelligent Power LimitedValvetrain control arrangement


Claims

1. An internal combustion engine, comprising:
a block having an internal combustion chamber coupled to an exhaust port;a first, second, third, and fourth electrically actuated fluid control valves adapted to be energized by a digital pulse to place the valve in one of a first position and a second position, said valves constructed from a magnetic material which will generate enough residual magnetism to maintain the position of the valve when electrical power is not provided to the valves;a hydraulically drivable fuel injector operable to eject a volume of fuel into said internal combustion chamber, said hydraulically drivable fuel injector having an intensifier operable to increase a pressure of the fuel ejected into said internal combustion chamber, said hydraulically drivable fuel injector controlled by said first electrically actuated fluid control valve to control the ejection of the fuel into said internal combustion chamber;a hydraulically drivable exhaust valve moveable between an open position and a closed position to open and close said exhaust port, said hydraulically drivable exhaust valve controlled by said second electrically actuated fluid control valve to control the movement of said exhaust valve;a fluid reservoir adapted to contain a fluid;an electronically controlled pump operable to pump the fluid from said fluid reservoir to said first and second electrically actuated fluid control valves to drive said hydraulically drivable fuel injector and said hydraulically drivable exhaust valve, said electronically controlled pump controlled by said third electrically actuated fluid control valve to control the output of said electronically controlled pump;an electronically controlled accumulator operable to control a rail pressure of the fluid provided to said hydraulically drivable fuel injector and said hydraulically drivable exhaust valve, said electronically controlled accumulator controlled by said fourth electrically actuated fluid control valve to control the rail pressure; and,a controller operable to provide a plurality of digital pulses to control said first, second, third, and fourth electrically actuated fluid control valves.2. The engine as recited in claim 1, wherein said pump includes an electrically actuated pump by-pass valve moveable between an open position and a closed position by a plurality of digital signals provided by said controller, wherein said electrically actuated pump by-pass valve is operable to provide fluid communication between an outlet port of said pump and a return line coupled to said fluid reservoir.
3. The engine as recited in claim 1, wherein said accumulator includes an electrically actuated accumulator by-pass valve moveable between an open position and a closed position by a plurality of digital signals provided by said controller, wherein said electrically actuated accumulator by-pass valve is operable to provide fluid communication between an inlet port of said accumulator and a return line coupled to said fluid reservoir.
4. The engine as recited in claim 1, wherein said first and second electrically actuated fluid control valves each include a first electrical actuator and a second electrical actuator operable to move a spool between a first position and a second position.



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Old 02-22-2013, 12:14 AM   #26
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The Coates Spherical Rotary Valve System makes more sense to me, and looks like it wouldn't have any big mechanical challenges/failures like the above...



But alas I haven't heard them doing anything amazing, or showing up in the news for several years...
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:49 AM   #27
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wow thats cool and the fact that its been in testing for 2.5 years is promising. Good info in here, thanks for the post!
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:24 AM   #28
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They've been testing the Coats stuff for a lot longer than that, I remember seeing a prototype set on a 5.0 circulating the internet 6-7 years ago.
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