Who's responsible?? - Page 2

bwk1971 · 01-18-2013, 09:39 AM

Maybe this will help. The Uniform Commercial Code was adopted by most states, and specifically Article 2 which covers these types of questions.

§ 2-509. Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach.

(1) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier

(a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation (Section 2-505); but
(b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery.

I would pay particular attention to (b) the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery. This is where lawyers earn their money arguing over the question were the goods "duly so tendered" and tendered "as to enable the buyer to take delivery." Tough question in this case. I believe hysonmb is absolutely correct that all UPS packages may carry some sort of insurance. I'd see where that route takes you first. Then pursue any faulty that UPS or the seller may have that would assist your argument that the goods were not duly so tendered as to enable you to take delivery. Good luck.

Frank in MD · 01-18-2013, 11:42 AM

Yeah, I also don't see what responsibility the seller has if the merchandise shipped to the correct address. What did the seller do wrong?

Wondering · 01-18-2013, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tramtwo

I've never signed for anything that wasn't mine. You?

In an industrial setting,it's quite possible for a business to receive tens if not hundreds of packages a day. They don't check the label on every one. I'd wager that one of the other businesses in the area has the OP's package.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hysonmb

Depending on how much you spent, UPS automatically insures up to a certain amount. I think it's $100 but could be more.

UPS has a max liability of $100.00 per package,unless it was insured by the seller for more. I seem to remember it being around fifty cents per hundred dollars of coverage.

SoCalThug · 01-18-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondering

In an industrial setting,it's quite possible for a business to receive tens if not hundreds of packages a day. They don't check the label on every one. I'd wager that one of the other businesses in the area has the OP's package.

+1
I get mail from other buisnesses close bye all the time.

London-SS · 01-19-2013, 04:59 AM

Thank you all so much for your input! Much appreciated. I guess this is quite a sticky topic and a difficult one to resolve in many cases.
I have finally had some good news! The package has been recovered after 14 days of being delivered four units away from our offices. So,UPS was defo to blame here although they continued to insist they delivered to the exact address provided!
The seller was a great guy and assisted through out the ordeal!

Cheers!

rberns · 01-19-2013, 05:55 AM

If you did not ask for the package to be insured and the seller did ship it as you state that UPS delivered it (to me its stating that UPS had your package in their control). Then I don't see you being able to blame the seller for lost merchandise. My advice to you is to call UPS immediately and get a claim going right away. I had this same instance where on their track and confirm website it said it was delivered, but it had not arrived. I called the office and within 30 minutes it was at my door. IMO for who is at fault between UPS and yourself. UPS because they "may" have lost it and you for not making sure the package was insured. Good luck though and hope you get your package.

rberns · 01-19-2013, 05:58 AM

Nevermind, I see you got your package. congrats and enjoy.

AdamZ · 01-19-2013, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamZ

1. Verify the seller got the address correct. (this could have been a scam where they sell you something, send a bogus package to a friend and they sign for it, then the package never shows up to you so it looks like it's delivered to the wrong person. Therefor taking responsibility off the seller)

2. Verify with UPS that the package was delivered to the correct address.

3. Call the police and file a police report. If someone signed for a package and took delivery of it then they can be prosecuted. They can trace the name given at delivery (if it is a real name).

4. Hopefully, since it is an industrial area, the package was just delivered to one of the surrounding buildings by mistake.

Oh, UPS does not offer insurance. They just refund what it is worth if they lost it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by London-SS

Thank you all so much for your input! Much appreciated. I guess this is quite a sticky topic and a difficult one to resolve in many cases.
I have finally had some good news! The package has been recovered after 14 days of being delivered four units away from our offices. So,UPS was defo to blame here although they continued to insist they delivered to the exact address provided!
The seller was a great guy and assisted through out the ordeal!

Cheers!

Looks like I won

CWI · 01-19-2013, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahdir

Without insurance, not UPS...

I recommend having the sender file a trace with UPS. It could take week or more, but it has the driver retrace his/her steps... the driver may have accidentally mixed the package in with a delivery for another customer within the industrial park.

Best of luck.

If you have the tracking number, you can do your own trace online. Talk to UPS to see what your or sender's options are. Maybe their GPS tracking can match up to the delivery time and see where it was actually delivered to, Wrong address maybe

1543R2 · 01-19-2013, 12:18 PM

Just curious, how did you pay the seller? Did you pay with PayPal? If you did, you may have a claim with them. Check out their Safety & Security page, here is the link.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
This is not a commercial for PayPal, but I have been down this road before and have found them to be the safest way to go for both the buyer and seller. Good luck, I feel your pain!!!

CTS · 01-20-2013, 11:25 AM

I have been thru this with UPS. They will never admit fault!!

I had a package delivered to wrong address, with no signature. The driver lied and said she left it at my shop. I was there during the time she recorded the delivery and she was not there. I called UPS 1-800 # and filed a claim. UPS then sent investigator (local manager of terminal) to my business and grilled me. Vary arrogant SOB and actually told me he suspects I have the package as his drivers don't lie. After that instance, I called the company that had sent me the auto parts and told them what was going on. They were a big UPS shipper and they filed the loss complaint and sent me replacements, even though once delivered they are no longer responsible. Value of lost shipment was over $1000.

Weeks later I get this call from a lady who lives on the same street 3 blocks away, on West 12th and I am on E 12th. She says she went into her garage today and behind the door she finds a big package with my name on it (finds name address in phone book) and has no idea when it got there. She tells me UPS never comes to their place and wants me to come and get it, I tell her I can't. I detailed the problems I had with UPS over this package and that she should contact them and complain they left this package in her detached garage. She says she hardly ever goes into the garage.

I had gotten my replacement auto parts by then. Last I ever heard of the subject.

2SSRS@Gen5diy · 01-20-2013, 01:41 PM

UPS is the worst IMO, i know the on this OP, i got a box from the same guy that UPS dropped off 2 doors down and across the street, and the tell me i got the box and i side i did not, i got other things that day from them but not that box, then they call and tell me it 2 doors down and i need to go get it, i told them i did not sign for it and that is there job.

They that day dilliverd me a box for some one up the block from me there the worst.

tramtwo · 01-20-2013, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

UPS is the worst IMO, i know the on this OP, i got a box from the same guy that UPS dropped off 2 doors down and across the street, and the tell me i got the box and i side i did not, i got other things that day from them but not that box, then they call and tell me it 2 doors down and i need to go get it, i told them i did not sign for it and that is there job.

They that day dilliverd me a box for some one up the block from me there the worst.

I think they deliver about 1.3 million packages correctly a day... sound like the PERSON on your route Ofer sucks extra.. :-)

tramtwo posted this on the go

London-SS · 01-20-2013, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamZ

Looks like I won

I have to say,you nailed it

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1543R2

Just curious, how did you pay the seller? Did you pay with PayPal? If you did, you may have a claim with them. Check out their Safety & Security page, here is the link.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
This is not a commercial for PayPal, but I have been down this road before and have found them to be the safest way to go for both the buyer and seller. Good luck, I feel your pain!!!

I paid through paypal but as per the title of the thread,I needed to get opinions from members to know if the seller could have done more or should I take the hit.
In all fairness,the guy is an honest,upstanding seller and assisted through out.I didn't want to jump the gun and get claiming through paypal. I am glad I got my lights

01-18-2013, 09:39 AM	#15
bwk1971 Res Ipsa Loquitur Drives: 2013 Camaro SS Vert Supercharged Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 726	Maybe this will help. The Uniform Commercial Code was adopted by most states, and specifically Article 2 which covers these types of questions. § 2-509. Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach. (1) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier (a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation (Section 2-505); but (b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery. I would pay particular attention to (b) the risk of loss passes to the buyer *when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery.* This is where lawyers earn their money arguing over the question were the goods "duly so tendered" and tendered "as to enable the buyer to take delivery." Tough question in this case. I believe hysonmb is absolutely correct that all UPS packages may carry some sort of insurance. I'd see where that route takes you first. Then pursue any faulty that UPS or the seller may have that would assist your argument that the goods were not duly so tendered as to enable you to take delivery. Good luck.

01-18-2013, 11:42 AM	#16
Frank in MD Raining Blood Drives: 2014 SS Performance Sedan Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: facebook Posts: 2,682	Yeah, I also don't see what responsibility the seller has if the merchandise shipped to the correct address. What did the seller do wrong? __________________ Ordered 1/9/12 - Born 2/3/12 - Delivered 2/21/12 - '12 1SS/RS Summit White - TRADED. 2014 SS Performance Sedan #2974 - Red Hot 2 - S/R. & Spare. Built 01/09/14 #238 of 291 as configured

01-19-2013, 05:55 AM	#20
rberns Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: US Posts: 3,291 View My Garage	If you did not ask for the package to be insured and the seller did ship it as you state that UPS delivered it (to me its stating that UPS had your package in their control). Then I don't see you being able to blame the seller for lost merchandise. My advice to you is to call UPS immediately and get a claim going right away. I had this same instance where on their track and confirm website it said it was delivered, but it had not arrived. I called the office and within 30 minutes it was at my door. IMO for who is at fault between UPS and yourself. UPS because they "may" have lost it and you for not making sure the package was insured. Good luck though and hope you get your package. __________________ 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS, Circle D 3200, ADM Transmission Cooler, BTR Valvetrain, Cam Motion .621 .595 228/244 113+4, ARH 1 7/8 full exhaust, Cold Air Inductions, Katech C5R TC, Melling HV, BTR SLR lifters, Trunion Upgrade, LS2 Dampner, LS9 head gaskets, Bo White PTB, MM can, GFX, Subs, B&M Deep transmission pan, Holley fuel rail, Proform valve covers, relocated coil packs

01-19-2013, 05:58 AM	#21
rberns Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: US Posts: 3,291 View My Garage	Nevermind, I see you got your package. congrats and enjoy. __________________ 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS, Circle D 3200, ADM Transmission Cooler, BTR Valvetrain, Cam Motion .621 .595 228/244 113+4, ARH 1 7/8 full exhaust, Cold Air Inductions, Katech C5R TC, Melling HV, BTR SLR lifters, Trunion Upgrade, LS2 Dampner, LS9 head gaskets, Bo White PTB, MM can, GFX, Subs, B&M Deep transmission pan, Holley fuel rail, Proform valve covers, relocated coil packs

01-20-2013, 11:25 AM	#25
CTS Drives: 2021 Sierra Denali 6.2L/10sp CC 4WD Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houghton, Michigan Posts: 234 View My Garage	I have been thru this with UPS. They will never admit fault!! I had a package delivered to wrong address, with no signature. The driver lied and said she left it at my shop. I was there during the time she recorded the delivery and she was not there. I called UPS 1-800 # and filed a claim. UPS then sent investigator (local manager of terminal) to my business and grilled me. Vary arrogant SOB and actually told me he suspects I have the package as his drivers don't lie. After that instance, I called the company that had sent me the auto parts and told them what was going on. They were a big UPS shipper and they filed the loss complaint and sent me replacements, even though once delivered they are no longer responsible. Value of lost shipment was over $1000. Weeks later I get this call from a lady who lives on the same street 3 blocks away, on West 12th and I am on E 12th. She says she went into her garage today and behind the door she finds a big package with my name on it (finds name address in phone book) and has no idea when it got there. She tells me UPS never comes to their place and wants me to come and get it, I tell her I can't. I detailed the problems I had with UPS over this package and that she should contact them and complain they left this package in her detached garage. She says she hardly ever goes into the garage. I had gotten my replacement auto parts by then. Last I ever heard of the subject. __________________ Mike Synthoil Supply 2021 GMC Sierra Denali CC Ultimate 6.2L

01-19-2013, 04:59 AM	#19
London-SS Drives: 2010 Chevy Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: London-Dubai Posts: 203	Thank you all so much for your input! Much appreciated. I guess this is quite a sticky topic and a difficult one to resolve in many cases. I have finally had some good news! The package has been recovered after 14 days of being delivered four units away from our offices. So,UPS was defo to blame here although they continued to insist they delivered to the exact address provided! The seller was a great guy and assisted through out the ordeal! Cheers!

01-19-2013, 12:18 PM	#24
1543R2 Drives: 2011 2LT RS Blk/Blk Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: So. Calif. Posts: 44	Just curious, how did you pay the seller? Did you pay with PayPal? If you did, you may have a claim with them. Check out their Safety & Security page, here is the link. https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security This is not a commercial for PayPal, but I have been down this road before and have found them to be the safest way to go for both the buyer and seller. Good luck, I feel your pain!!!

01-20-2013, 01:41 PM	#26
2SSRS@Gen5diy Drives: 2014 Z/28 #82+#192, 18ZLE 66Nova Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: By the lake in AZ Posts: 15,728 View My Garage	UPS is the worst IMO, i know the on this OP, i got a box from the same guy that UPS dropped off 2 doors down and across the street, and the tell me i got the box and i side i did not, i got other things that day from them but not that box, then they call and tell me it 2 doors down and i need to go get it, i told them i did not sign for it and that is there job. They that day dilliverd me a box for some one up the block from me there the worst.