Okay What Was The Buick Brand Thinking

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by BigDan

They already have said car, they just wont put it on sale in the states.

http://jalopnik.com/5408812/opel-ins...pc-first-drive

AWD 335hp TT V6 anyone?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by BigDan

They already have said car, they just wont put it on sale in the states.

http://jalopnik.com/5408812/opel-ins...pc-first-drive

AWD 335hp TT V6 anyone?

It's a 2.8L Turbocharged V6, not a twin-turbo. And there are a whole host of reasons as to why the Insignia OPC and Regal GS aren't carbon copies.

And to answer the OP's question, yes. GM was perfectly content with Buick being an old person's brand. It wasn't until Lutz stepped in that Buick started stepping up their game.

The 1st gen LaCrosse is actually an improvement...apparently the original design was absolutely terrible.

[f5journal]

2007 Silver Buick Lucerne...in my driveway..belongs to my 85 yr old mother in law
1998 dark green Buick Century....was in my driveway...belonged to my mother in law

There was and still are identical cars in town with matching "occupant"

[toesuf94]

The same can really be said about nearly EVERY brand sold in this time period. Look at the following cars that were offered in the late 80's through most of the 90's.

Tempo/Topaz
Cutlass Ciera/Achieva
Saturn - ALL
Bonneville SE, Pontiac 6000, Grand Prix SE
Lincoln ANYTHING
Impala/Caprice/Cavalier/Malibu
Toyota Camary/Corolla
Hyundai
Every Chrysler/Dodge product of this era (error) outside of the Viper/Prowler lines.


The list of boring, drab, absolutely uninspired rides in the time period that you are describing is HUGE. Nothing that ANYONE will lament being crushed and never seen again.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by toesuf94

The same can really be said about nearly EVERY brand sold in this time period. Look at the following cars that were offered in the late 80's through most of the 90's.

Tempo/Topaz
Cutlass Ciera/Achieva
Saturn - ALL
Bonneville SE, Pontiac 6000, Grand Prix SE
Lincoln ANYTHING
Impala/Caprice/Cavalier/Malibu
Toyota Camary/Corolla
Hyundai
Every Chrysler/Dodge product of this era (error) outside of the Viper/Prowler lines.


The list of boring, drab, absolutely uninspired rides in the time period that you are describing is HUGE. Nothing that ANYONE will lament being crushed and never seen again.

I STRONLY disagree with you.

The Chrysler LH cars were great, family had 2, they were actually sporty, handled great, and were definatly NOT for just old fogies. Same with the cloud cars and Neon. The Rams and Dakotas were also excellent and the 94 Ram and 97 Dakota were both well ahead of their time.

The Lincoln Mark VIII was an excellent car too. Big RWD coupe, 290 HP DOHC V8, fully independant suspension.


Pontiac 6000 was actually considered ahead of it's time when it came out and the SE versions of the GP and Bonnie were base models that actually appealed to younger and less afluent. The Cavalier Z24s at the time were also popular people as a sporty and fun to drive car. If you knew the Caprice you would not say this. At least as a used car it is quite popular with the younger set. Especially the 94-96 with the LT1 in it. I had one with the LT1 and B4U package and still kick myself for having to sell it.

[cab2g]

Originally Posted by upflying

Slightly sporty normal people car?

That's about where I would've put them. But when I was a kid i didnt know why pontiac existed because I thought that all their cars were copies of Chevrolet with slightly different body styles... back then I might have lumped them together because I didn't know that they were supposed to be "sportier"

[toesuf94]

I put the caprice on there as we were discussing late 80's to early 90's. I know ALL about the LT1 Caprices/Impala SS. Hell, I had two Roadmaster wagons...1 with the LT1...awesome car...but boring as a plain ice snow cone. Look at the Caprices you mentioned - what was exciting about them?

The LH series cars were 'different' than the "boring cars" offered elsewhere as far as looks were concerned...but power? Nothing that made you go "Wow!" The Neon...it was different, but 'exciting'? No. (Yes, there were some high wing festooned SRT cars near the end that were fun to look at-ish.)

Lincoln - yeah...the Mark was a neat car...but it was a blip on the radar of the models sold.

I didn't mention any trucks in my lists.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by toesuf94

I put the caprice on there as we were discussing late 80's to early 90's. I know ALL about the LT1 Caprices/Impala SS. Hell, I had two Roadmaster wagons...1 with the LT1...awesome car...but boring as a plain ice snow cone. Look at the Caprices you mentioned - what was exciting about them?

The LH series cars were 'different' than the "boring cars" offered elsewhere as far as looks were concerned...but power? Nothing that made you go "Wow!" The Neon...it was different, but 'exciting'? No. (Yes, there were some high wing festooned SRT cars near the end that were fun to look at-ish.)

Lincoln - yeah...the Mark was a neat car...but it was a blip on the radar of the models sold.

I didn't mention any trucks in my lists.

I got ya on the Caprice thing, I had a 96 B4U model (sports suspension, which was the same spring rates as Impala SS,different shocks, 2.92 rear axle ratio), it also had all options including the limited slip rear, leather, and even a towing package (actually the ratio may have been part of that). I also had a 96 Roadmaster Limited sedan with everything but the tow package and touring package, had the dynaride suspension). LOVED those cars, there will never be another like them.

Anyways, remember this was a different time, 200 HP was a big thing, the V6 Camry and Accords of the time only had 170 HP, anything over 100 HP was big for a compact.

LH cars. It was nore than the looks. They also had an available (or standard depending on which one) 215 HP OHC V6, and in 96 was one of the first cars out there to offer a manumatic shifter via auto stick. They also handled amazingly well. i loved driving my parents LHS and Intrpid. both had the 3.5 and that was a really nice and powerful motor. Took out a couple 5.0 auto TPi Camaros in that car and it would roast my 93 5.0 HO Thunderbird I had at the time. They also had great interiors. THe mid 90s LH cars were on par in that area, where Daimler actually pennied and dimed the cars designed during their reign to hard surfaces and cheap bits, which a 1st gen LH car did not have.

You may want to do a little research on the Neon. It was, and still is, a popular autocross car. The first had the Sport model with a 150 HP DOHC 4 cyclinder and 5 speed manual. The model was so popular with racing they offered the Neon ACR model. Of course the second gen started out in 2000 which also offered an R/T model, an ACR model which eventually accumulated in the SRT4.

Remember in 98 when Daimler bought Chrysler a lot of that was because at the time they were one of, if not the, most profitable car manufacturer out there. The closest thing they actually offered to a true old persons car at that time was the New yorker and it only lasted like 2 or 3 years and was just really the sporty LHS with a lot of extra chrome


You are right on the mark partially, as it was a much loswer slower seller than a more mainstream car like a normal compact or midsize sedan, but for being large nuiche midsize coupe, sales were where they should have been. I guess on price alone it was more an old persons car, but a young person can love this car, not only for what I mentioned earlier, but for other things like the ****pit style interior, the LSC models sports suspension, that would actually lower the car an inch at 60 MPH for better aerodynamics and stability.

[THUMPER20X]

Originally Posted by GNVenom

Two words:

Grand
National

Possibly the biggest accomplishment of all the GM branches

Exactly, even up the GNX. There were the 2 door Regal Grand sports that were pretty awesome cars in the the 90's and the supercharged Riviera was really a car that GM shoulda kept going. By now it probly would almost rival the CTSV coupe if it was kept in development.