Ford, will they counter GM?

[Mr. Wyndham]

I agree with everybody in someway or another.

On one hand, I think that Ford isn't so stupid as to just lay back and expect the Mustang to continue to sell as it has. If nothing else, then they've now got to fight for a chunk of the market, whether you think Camaro and Challenger are better or not (it's irrelevant).

Having said that...in typical Ford Fashion, I doubt they're going to wow anybody compared to Challenger or Camaro...in power, or styling. I could be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not betting on it.

[Eisenhower]

Originally Posted by OverAnxious

I disagree, Ford is smarter than that. We've already read Ford will "probably" (Key word- at the most, it'll get a nose job.) refresh the Exterior of the Mustang by 2009 or so, just in time to compete with the Camaro.

Ford has been laughing all the way to the bank with the Mustang ever since the 2003 model year. The 2005 new Mustang was a blockbuster hit, they flew off showroom floors for years.

They've been laughing all the way to the bank with the Mustang ever since 1964. Some people buy a mustang for nostalgic reasons-- I've got a mustang! I've got a mustang! blah, blah... Now, it makes sense to double your efforts and come up with something to extinguish the blazing inferno known as the Chevy Camaro; but with the kind of fan force that's behind the mustang, you can bet ford's not doing anything significant unless sales reflect otherwise.

[The_Stache]

They've been laughing all the way to the bank with the Mustang ever since 1964. Some people buy a mustang for nostalgic reasons-- I've got a mustang! I've got a mustang! blah, blah... Now, it makes sense to double your efforts and come up with something to extinguish the blazing inferno known as the Chevy Camaro; but with the kind of fan force that's behind the mustang, you can bet ford's not doing anything significant unless sales reflect otherwise.

Actually the rumor mill on most of the ford forums is they are looking at just some minor tweaks AS the camaro comes out and then a major body change(towards the italian design, not exact but with queues from that) with a new engine tech in 2011/2012, which really makes sense cause they wait till the camaro and challenger specs are out and then one up them.

Personally I have been following all 3 cars because I want a muscle car, and NOBODY can deny that really the only 3 on the market in 2009.5 will be the camaro/challenger/mustang. Each for me has their own good and bad points.. but with the information we have now the camaro has the better chance of getting my money.

[09'Z28]

Ford will probly try to counter the Camaro but thats just another reason to not realease to top dog till a little bit after so when ford counter them they will be ready to "counter counter attack"

[stevenm357]

Lets hope so, competition breeds better product.. mustang with no comp has not changed since 2005

[stovt001]

I hope Ford can be the one to offer us a worthy competitor. The Challenger's weight is going to be a real liability, so I don't think it will pose a great challenge, and it doesn't look like the Japanese brands have anything in the works besides the Nissan 370Z, and that will probably barely break 300 hp. Toyota had that concept that was to be the modern day Supra, but that looks like it fell off the radar.

[Rock36]

Ford does have some options with thier current platforms for quick responses.

It is concievable that a Mustang could get a N/A 4V DOHC 5.4L engine that already exits (think GT500 without the blower). This set up was actually used in the 2000 Cobra R and made 385hp and 385 ft-lbs of torque completely N/A.

Of course, 385hp is still shy of even the LS2, but it is something Ford could do immediately if they needed or wanted to. Other than that I am still counting on a new larger displacement engine line up in the next 3 years or so. I still expect a minor facelift in 09. The new Ford engines will come after the Camaro is on the streets I think.

If nothing else, Ford will have to offer displacement on demand and direct injection technology engines just to keep up, and they will. GM isn't the only company that will use or already uses these technologies.



As for a Nissan 370Z, well that will make 330hp. I say this because the new G37 (basically a four door Z) makes 330hp, and it has the same 3.7L engine that will make it into the 370Z

The GT-R is out on the horizon, but that car won't fill the market segment that the Camaro will be it.

[OverAnxious]

Originally Posted by Eisenhower

They've been laughing all the way to the bank with the Mustang ever since 1964. Some people buy a mustang for nostalgic reasons-- I've got a mustang! I've got a mustang! blah, blah... Now, it makes sense to double your efforts and come up with something to extinguish the blazing inferno known as the Chevy Camaro; but with the kind of fan force that's behind the mustang, you can bet ford's not doing anything significant unless sales reflect otherwise.

I'll agree people bought a Mustang just because it was a Mustang, but you can say the same for a Camaro as well

[Cubanaso]

Also, let's give credit where credit is due...

The Mustang GT can be had for about 25K and that sucker pulls off 13.5's in the 1/4 mile. Last time I checked, NOTHING can touch that performance per dollar ratio that the Mustang gives. That's why I think that if GM overprices the Camaro it's going to be a mistake because while hands down it has the better looks and engine, at the entry level V8 arena (performance for your buck) the Camaro needs to at least match it if not beat it.

Just rememberd...the only car that could match the Mustang on price/performance is the entry level (5 spd) EVO which could be had for about 28K and pulled off 13.1 in the 1/4 mile. But, mitsu messed something up because the new one is significantly slower than the previous model.

So, that's why I can't wait to get the facts on pricing and engine choices for the Camaro.

[BRNLKY2]

Here is a pretty strong counter punch!!!!!!!!!


Roush Mustang GT605

500 horsepower under the hood may have been impressive back when Ford and Shelby launched the Shelby GT500 last year and is still nothing to be sneezed at but with more and more cars hitting the 600 hp mark Roush and FRT (Ford Racing Technologies) set out to rectify the hp output. Jack Roush was impressed with the 500hp 5.4 liter V8 found in the Mustang but said: “We thought we could get a little more out of that engine.” And a little more it is, little meaning 105hp!

The additional 105hp are achieved through the new Ford Racing GT500 Supercharger which uses a new TVS roots-style technology improving both airflow and efficiency, where more airflow means more power. This supercharger is the first to use this new technology both in the OE (original equipment) and aftermarket segment. The cold air intake kit considerably reduces pressure drop across the stock air box and filter element. It comes with a high-flow, large 6-inch conical filter and the rotomolded airbox seals to the hood to reduce leakage.

The power boost can be yours for just USD 5,600 from either Ford Racing Technologies or Roush and does not affect the 1-year/12,000 mile drivetrain warranty warranty.

[Rock36]

I'm bored right now so I will add more of my 2 cents.

1) I remember an article about the fastest cars under $30K (I think motortrend), and the Mitsu Evo barely squeaked by at $29,XXX dollars because it had minimal options. Realistically you couldn't expect one for less than $30K.

2) The New Mitsu Evo is slower than the out going model, but in straight line performance only. The new evo is far more advanced in terms of handling, which is really what the Evo crowds like. Plus any turboed car is easily modified for improved acceleration.

3) 13.5s in the current Mustang GTs are pretty rare , though I do know of two well-documented 13.4s on some other Mustang forums, but the vast majority of stock Mustang GTs fall in the 13.6-13.8 range (inexperienced drivers will get low 14s). This is my honest evaluation as an experienced Mustang owner.

4) I would point out that the GTO value (in terms of only dollar to horsepower ratio) is better than the Mustang. 400hp in the $30K-$34K price range is hard to beat as well. Furthermore, some claim that LS2 GTOs are 12 second cars stock....In my experience at the track, LS2 GTOs certainly trap high enough for the high 12s, but rarely to they ever break out of the 13s (mostly due to street tires and IRS). At any rate they are solid low 13 second cars with a competent driver.A really good driver at a good track will manage the high 12s out of a LS2 GTO on the factory street tires.

Of course a $25K car like the Mustang is much more affordable to the general public than a $32K car which is just as important as the basic dollar to power ratio. I mean you could have a 2000 hp car that costs $100,000 and that would be a great dollar-to-power ratio, but not many people can afford a $100k car no matter how much of a value it is.

5) Which brings me to my point. The Camaro will be hard to beat as well in terms of price and performace. It will most likely have more power than the outgoing GTO, and will be cheaper than the GTO if for no other reason than the fact that it is produced in much larger quantities than the GTO was.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by BRNLKY2

Here is a pretty strong counter punch!!!!!!!!!


Roush Mustang GT605

500 horsepower under the hood may have been impressive back when Ford and Shelby launched the Shelby GT500 last year and is still nothing to be sneezed at but with more and more cars hitting the 600 hp mark Roush and FRT (Ford Racing Technologies) set out to rectify the hp output. Jack Roush was impressed with the 500hp 5.4 liter V8 found in the Mustang but said: “We thought we could get a little more out of that engine.” And a little more it is, little meaning 105hp!

The additional 105hp are achieved through the new Ford Racing GT500 Supercharger which uses a new TVS roots-style technology improving both airflow and efficiency, where more airflow means more power. This supercharger is the first to use this new technology both in the OE (original equipment) and aftermarket segment. The cold air intake kit considerably reduces pressure drop across the stock air box and filter element. It comes with a high-flow, large 6-inch conical filter and the rotomolded airbox seals to the hood to reduce leakage.

The power boost can be yours for just USD 5,600 from either Ford Racing Technologies or Roush and does not affect the 1-year/12,000 mile drivetrain warranty warranty.

I don't think it is fair to compare special editions that are upgraded by aftermarket companies to factory stock/produced vehicles.

[Cubanaso]

Oh, remember I'm not talking about dollar per HP, I'm talking about dollar per performance.

So, not 300HP for 25K but 13.5's for 25K and of course there is alot more to performance than the straights that's for sure. Heck, my RX8 is a GREAT value sports car because while it's a humble 14.4-14.7 1/4 mile car it out handles alot of the higher performing cars out there. Heck, the 350Z is significantly faster yet it matches it at the track....heck, even per one test it matched the M3 on the track. (the British car show...dang I forgot the name)

But for this thread, I mean that the Mustang at 25K offers a great performance value In my opinion.

I forgot about the GTO...it should be in that list but probably in 3rd place because it's 32K not 25K and an EVO is slightly less with slightly better if not the same performance.

I'd love to see a Camaro come in at 25K with at least 350HP, leaving the 400+ to maybe a SS version in the mid to low 30's but again it's all speculation until GM reveals the final numbers. Now...a 400HP 27-28K would be a HUGE PERFORMANCE VALUE!

[stovt001]

Yeah I wouldn't mind a sub 400hp V8 as the base V8 offering in the Camaro if it made it more affordable, in the mid 20,000 range. I think that is perfectly reasonable, as the G8 (a bigger, more upscale vehicle) with a 360 hp/390 lb ft engine starts at $30,000. Also, I agree that performance is subjective based on what you look for. Good performance to a 1/4 miler is not nearly the same as performance to an autocrosser, or a road racer, or a rally driver, or someone who enters open highway races like the Silver State Challenge. Each racing style has its own unique performance demands. I hope the new Camaro is well rounded enough to excel in many of them, just like the older ones were.