Here goes the UAW again....

[toesuf94]

For the people who want to target Corporate "greed" as the problem and NOT the Unions...answer me this: IF the corporation was not driven to make money would they strive to make products like Camaro's, Corvettes, Mustangs, and Challengers? NO. They would build boring crapboxes in beige, white, and grey and THAT IS ALL. Now, on the flip side: Show me one union ANYWHERE that ever helped any company be successful (Google it...nothing will come up world wide). Now...use my example of the company and substitute Union where I placed company and you will see what the motives of the Union bosses are. They do nothing to create value, they only raise the costs of the products we buy - keeping them out of the reach of the guy making $10 an hour and opening the door for cheap imported products built with cheap labor. Someday people will wake up to this.

[2010SS2SS]

Why do you think the Camaro is built in Canada? No UAW!!...

[nferno]

the company has at least half to do with there down fall if not more. they agreed to the contracts when things were good then cried about them when things went bad and had them change them... try that with your car loan or house loan when things get rough for you. not going to happen for ya. Not everone in this country can go to collage and the like. sometimes life gets in the way. like taking care of a family member parents dieing etc... so those people who had to work instead of going to further there knowledge do not have the right to get a good working wage and health care? and should not have a family? it is not just the workers or unions fault. the company made all types of bad decisions and ceo's who make 20 to 40 millions a year had nothing to do with raping a company na..

[nferno]

If I am not mistaking the plant were the camaro is built are union workers?

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by Larz29

Ok Anyone on this forum who owns a new Camaro earns much more than a bottom of the barrel $10/hr or even $15/hr job. There is no way anyone here could afford a camaro unless you are independently wealthy or earn at least $20/hr...that being said the union pushes for higher wages, so people at the bottom can ACTUALLY earn a meaningful living, not just scrape by. I understand some people will argue we won't be as competitive, but do you really think it's fair for someone who has worked in a company building the very same car you drive to earn peanuts?? IMO... if you (me included) can afford a toy like this, we should have a heart and let the workers collectively bargen. On the flip side, we now have competition from China and other countries so their needs to be a ballance... Oh and no I'm not a lefty or in a Union just someone who believes in fair wages.

Right to work States get by just fine without unions, and we can afford to drive a Camaro just fine...

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by nferno

If I am not mistaking the plant were the camaro is built are union workers?

correct, CAW

[djsnoflake]

If everyone's base wage goes up, you are really all still at the same level.

If everyone made at least $50/ hour (like that is the minimum wage), it just means bread would cost $9 a loaf. If you want to 'get ahead' the way to do it isn't by raising everyone's wage, it's by making yourself qualified for a higher scale job.

[nferno]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

Right to work States get by just fine without unions, and we can afford to drive a Camaro just fine...

There are plenty of unions in right to work states. cops, firefieghters, utility workers etc... so what ur point? people should have the right to to a fair wage. as one post stated those who forget there past is bond to repeat it. so let the companys walk all over the workers again.. and they will if we let them.

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by djsnoflake

If everyone's wage goes up, you are really all still at the same level.

If everyone made $50/ hour, it just means bread would cost $9 a loaf. If you want to 'get ahead' the way to do it isn't by raising everyone's wage, it's by making yourself qualified for a higher scale job.

[Larz29]

Slingshot ... LOL ... I'm sure you are only speaking for your own personal situation because go your local Sears automotive and ask the hard working mechanic if he could afford a new Camaro? They probalby can't in your state or any other. My point is, of course not everyone can have a car like this, or a 4000 sq. ft. house, or yearly vacations to wherever but if a company CEO can make 20 mil/yr why shouldn't the guy putting the parts on your camaro earn $50k/yr with good health insurance? Your arguement doesn't make sense.

[nferno]

Originally Posted by djsnoflake

If everyone's wage goes up, you are really all still at the same level.

If everyone made $50/ hour, it just means bread would cost $9 a loaf. If you want to 'get ahead' the way to do it isn't by raising everyone's wage, it's by making yourself qualified for a higher scale job.

I agree. but the ceo's would also need to adjust and the higher ups. Why do they make 200 to 250 times what there average worker makes? so if the workers loose there wages/benifits then why do the ceo's etc.. get bigger bounes? and a raise?

some people can not make themself more qualified for a higher job scale. so to bad for them? they just better expect to be poor. I know alot of people who are very hard workes that can not get a higher ed. life gets in the way..

[Larz29]

Well said Nferno.

[Weezerj]

Originally Posted by DJ UNKNOWN

Hope your referring to corporate greed as well because to me it seems like u guys are blaming the unions for this whole mess and If you are then your very much misinformed

The "corporation" should be greedy, for the sake of its shareholders. Its the greed of the bosses that kills a company. You can give out a ton of $2 and $3 per hour raises and still not touch the amount of money some of the CEOs and other executives are bleeding from these companies.

Whats the difference between Japanese ran car companies and US ones? The millions in bonuses that the Japanese CEOs don't take. They make a proportional amount over the average employee, not grossly more like US CEOs.

Japanese hourly workers make just as much, if not more than our local autoworkers (as well as other jobs)....

[djsnoflake]

Originally Posted by nferno

I agree. but the ceo's would also need to adjust and the higher ups to 200 to 250 times what there average worker makes. so if workers loose there wages/benifits then why do the ceo etc.. get bigger bounes? and a raise?

some people can not make themself more qualified for a higher job scale. so to bad for them? they just better expect to be poor. I know alot of people who are very hard workes that can not get a higher ed. lifegets in the way..

All I am saying is that raising everyone's base wage doesn't get anyone ahead, it just drives up the costs of goods, so all of a sudden $50 an hour as minimum wage still means that you are below the poverty line.

If you think raising wages is the answer to the economy, you are wrong. And making the bottom wage sometimes means that, yep, you can't have everything you want.

I don't make enough money to have 2 kids, so I don't have 2 kids. I have 1 and make sure she is taken care of. Just because you want something doesn't always mean you should have it or that you are entitled to it.