The Volt out of juice...?

[BlackPlague]

sounds like oil supporters are throwing out more propaganda....0o0o0o0o no one wants to buy the volt! yet gm has enough demand to make a luxury model.

[kbui]

Originally Posted by Synner

I think the fact that with so many cars that are in the 20-30k price range that are now getting 40ish MPG its tough to justify the extra expense. I think if GM had brought it to market faster it might have enjoyed more success due to less competition from conventional powertrains that are more efficient. Although I do agree that production numbers are the biggest limiting factor right now. Buty I think it will max out the early adopters and then the price will need to come down before it has greater mass market appeal.
I wouldn't mind a Volt but when I can get a well equipped focus or cruze or fit or civic or corolla for around 20k and get roughly 40mpg I can't justify the nearly doubled expense of the volt.

A few months ago, I went to my local Chevy dealer to look at a Volt. Since most commutes around Austin is less than 40 miles round trip and I have 2 kids commuting to universities near by, I was seriously looking at a Volt for them. I was thinking with a Volt for these short commutes, I will never have to pay for gas, but the local dealers didn't even have one to sell. Ends up with a Cruze for the kids, but would have bought a Volt.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Synner

I think the fact that with so many cars that are in the 20-30k price range that are now getting 40ish MPG its tough to justify the extra expense. I think if GM had brought it to market faster it might have enjoyed more success due to less competition from conventional powertrains that are more efficient. Although I do agree that production numbers are the biggest limiting factor right now. Buty I think it will max out the early adopters and then the price will need to come down before it has greater mass market appeal.
I wouldn't mind a Volt but when I can get a well equipped focus or cruze or fit or civic or corolla for around 20k and get roughly 40mpg I can't justify the nearly doubled expense of the volt.

This.

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

These are the same people that go to a used lot saying, "I've got $4,000 cash and I ain't goin' a dime higher!" The salesman proceeds to show a $4k car, usually some compact from the late '90s with over 100k miles. These buyers will never understand business. Business is making money so that businesses can reinvest in new stuff, including technology. What GM has done with the Volt is make impossibly expensive engineering available for the masses.

For the sake of simplicity, the Volt is a car with two engines. Let's say you put two engines in your Camaro. How much would it cost? Let's make it more affordable. Let's put two engines in a Cobalt SS. This LNF is going for over $3k on a car that retailed in the low-mid $20,000s. Now, installing another engine isn't going to just cost the price of a new engine. You've got to fabricate room for it on the existing platform, so that might require some work. You've got to redo the interior because it is now a 4-seater instead of a 5-seater. You've got a lot of work ahead of you, and that costs labor dollars. I think it would be safe to say that adding a new engine would cost as much as $15,000 on our new Cobalt SS. Suddenly, we're right around the price of a Volt.

And let's not forget that profit is a matter of business. If a business is not running a profit, it cannot produce new, innovative products. All it can do is produce what it already has and hope it sells better tomorrow. Profit is necessary for us to have Camaros, Corvettes, ground effects kits, special edition models, advertising, sponsorships, contests, apparel, and all the other good things Chevrolet does.

What's remarkable about the Volt is that the additional powerplant is not typical. It saves money on gas, albeit you have to drive it for a while to break even. The Volt is worth every penny of that pricetag, and if you aren't willing to pay it, go buy yourself a Malibu. It's nice and less expensive.

Look at how much more it is than the Prius and by your rational the Prius has 2 engines too. You have to look at the competition. I think it is too technologically advanced and thus is priced out of the market. They should have just reverse engineered synergy drive from a Prius, used the current Volt design, priced it in the 20's and called it a day. Don't fix a formula that works. It seems like GM is trying to reinvent the wheel. If they came up with voltec 5 or 10 years ago it might have been a hit.

[CC Performance]

Its still to damn much money for the avg person...
Drop the price to a reasonable cost and it will sell... I'd buy one for my wife and then figure how to mod it a bit to extend the range.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Look at how much more it is than the Prius and by your rational the Prius has 2 engines too. You have to look at the competition. I think it is too technologically advanced and thus is priced out of the market. They should have just reverse engineered synergy drive from a Prius, used the current Volt design, priced it in the 20's and called it a day. Don't fix a formula that works. It seems like GM is trying to reinvent the wheel. If they came up with voltec 5 or 10 years ago it might have been a hit.

A Prius can't go up to 40 miles without gas. A Prius is still completely dependent on its gasoline engine. A Prius uses outdated and inferior technology.

If every automaker followed your way of thinking, we'd still be driving cars that looked more or less like the original Model T.

At this point, it's an economies of scale issue. The more vehicles GM builds using Voltec, the lower the price will get. That's why the ELR is so crucial (and should have been in development a while ago).

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

A Prius can't go up to 40 miles without gas. A Prius is still completely dependent on its gasoline engine. A Prius uses outdated and inferior technology.

If every automaker followed your way of thinking, we'd still be driving cars that looked more or less like the original Model T.

From the toyota website:

With the Plug-in's extended EV mode, [1][2] you'll be able to make many of your daily local trips without using a single drop of gas.[3] And because it's backed by Hybrid Synergy Drive®, you could get up to 475 miles on a single tank, depending on driving conditions. [3] You also get the convenience of Plug-in charging and rapid recharge times: 3 hours with a standard 120V household outlet or 1.5 hours with a 240V outlet.

I don't understand how 50+ mpg's for 25K is outdated technology when none of the American companies have released a hybrid any where close to those numbers.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

From the toyota website:

I don't understand how 50+ mpg's for 25K is outdated technology when none of the American companies have released a hybrid any where close to those numbers.

I believe you're quoting the yet-to-be-released PHEV Prius. Which lacks the Volt's 40 mile electric-only range, and will most likely be priced substantially higher than the standard Prius.

And if you want to talk about MPGs, Volt is EPA rated at 94 MPG.

[Black5thgen]

That's great but I'm talking real world mpg's VS. MSRP. My parents have a 2010 Prius and as much as I hate toyota I have to admit they never get less than 50mpg's city or highway and they paid under 25K. It just blows my mind that GM or Ford haven't had a competitor and still don't for a car that has been around since 2001. Voltec is impressive technology but they could have reduced cost by simplifying the drive system and sold a lot more.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

That's great but I'm talking real world mpg's VS. MSRP. My parents have a 2010 Prius and as much as I hate toyota I have to admit they never get less than 50mpg's city or highway and they paid under 25K. It just blows my mind that GM or Ford haven't had a competitor and still don't for a car that has been around since 2001. Voltec is impressive technology but they could have reduced cost by simplifying the drive system and sold a lot more.

If you want to talk real world MPGs, then I probably shouldn't tell you about the engineer who managed 3,108 MPG with his Volt.

In a more realistic situation, the Volt, running on electricity and gasoline (aka expending the EV range and switching to gasoline afterwards), will do 60 MPG. Still more than the Prius.

Technically if you never exceed 40 miles, as the majority of drivers typically drive less than 40 miles every day, you're doing infinity miles per gallon until the Volt burns the gasoline in the tank to prevent it from going stale.

Again, you get what you pay for.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

Its still to damn much money for the avg person...
Drop the price to a reasonable cost and it will sell... I'd buy one for my wife and then figure how to mod it a bit to extend the range.

Oh, and it actually is possible to do so. The Volt automatically cuts off battery depletion before the battery is actually completely depleted to maintain battery life. If you could hack the computer (and void your warranty) to allow the battery to completely drain, you would be able to extend the EV range substantially. Your battery would just lose charge faster.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

From the toyota website:

I don't understand how 50+ mpg's for 25K is outdated technology when none of the American companies have released a hybrid any where close to those numbers.

Chevy Cruze gets 40 mpg without being a hybrid... just sayin. A lot cheaper too, and in my opinion a much better looking vehicle (inside and out). Oh and let's not forget that the making of a Prius does a lot more harm to the environment than it's reduced emissions will make up for in the vehicle's life time.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

Chevy Cruze gets 40 mpg without being a hybrid... just sayin. A lot cheaper too, and in my opinion a much better looking vehicle (inside and out). Oh and let's not forget that the making of a Prius does a lot more harm to the environment than it's reduced emissions will make up for in the vehicle's life time.

42 actually.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

42 actually.

I stand corrected, good sir!