N.Y. Times: G.M.’s Secret Success

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

I assume that means you have done plenty of traveling. Then I guess you need to pay attention to the cars more next time? I would think you would also understand that people in different markets want different things.

...or maybe you should travel instead of going to Wikipedia for answers. BTW - I see nothing on the Wikipedia entry which says a Corolla is not a Corolla everywhere.

People in different markets want different things huh? Tell that to Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Honda.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Hylton
Many people on this board think of GM only as a North American company and don't look at the billlions of dollars spent globally on repetitive BS. Vauxhaul, Opel and Holden also need to be consolidated in the new GM. Anywhere you go in the world, a Toyota Corolla is a Toyota Corolla. At GM, the european division has to justify it's existence by taking a Chevy platform and changing everything to make it look different and calling it something else and visa-versa. Total waste.

Lets see, since 2007 GM started selling the Saturn Vue here, Virtually Identical with an Opel, they sell the Saturn Astra, which IS a rebadged Opel, almost identical to the Opel version except for badging and other minor details, and also Opel sells a Version of the Sky Redline which is just a rebadge, and the tailights are different because of european laws. Also the Sky redline is sold in Korea as a Daewoo...They sell several Buick models in China that are virtually the same as the ones sold here. I could come up with others but you should see that your statement is incorrect.


Ford sold the escort also all over the world, BUT the escort they sold here was not the same as the ones sold in other places. The name was the same but the car was different, because they used cars built in those countries and just called them ESCORTS...same as GM does with many of it's cars, the name may be the same but the car is home grown.

[Hylton]

^ We are just going to have to agree that we have a different opinion as to how automotive companies should be run. What is the point of having Opel and how much do you think they could save if everything from Opel was badged as a Chevy? Obviously you couldn't do it overnight but like any merger, company names are gradually changed so that it does not impact the existing customer base.

I recall in the computer world, Hewlett-Packard bought Compaq which had bought Digital 10 years earlier. The product brands were slowly changed and streamlined so that customers were not dis-enfranchised.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Very good article. Nobody's perfect, but until someone can come up with a better person than Wagoner to run the show (maybe Fritz); he should stay put. The transformations he's put GM through are amazing, and he should be congratulated; not decapitated.:(

The call for his resignation is more political scapegoating. If they don't persecute somebody as "to blame", then they haven't done their job.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Hylton

...or maybe you should travel instead of going to Wikipedia for answers. BTW - I see nothing on the Wikipedia entry which says a Corolla is not a Corolla everywhere.

People in different markets want different things huh? Tell that to Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Honda.

I have. Please see my previous post in this thread. The wikipedia link shows that a "corolla" is NOT the same everywhere!!! Different engines, different body styles, different badges.

And here ya go... a picture my friend took (while I was right next to him) in La Paz, Bolivia. Please notice the make and model of the car in the foreground.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The call for his resignation is more political scapegoating. If they don't persecute somebody as "to blame", then they haven't done their job.

Isn't that the way it is? Just ask Oliver North!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Isn't that the way it is? Just ask Oliver North!

It all just makes me sick.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Hylton

^ We are just going to have to agree that we have a different opinion as to how automotive companies should be run. What is the point of having Opel and how much do you think they could save if everything from Opel was badged as a Chevy. Obviously you couldn't do it overnight but like any merger, company names are gradually changed so that it does not impact the existing customer base.

I recall in the computer world, Hewlett-Packard bought Compaq which had bought Digital 10 years earlier. The product brands were slowly changed and streamlined so that customers were not dis-enfranchised.

But they kept some brand seperation, HP is a usually higher line of computers than Compaq, so they appeal to different consumers.

GM IS switching to complete GLOBAL platforms, which in the future will sell worldwide, and just details will change based on regional preferences in features, ride and handling and other things. So while they are at it why not keep brands and styling cues that other countries are familiar with instead of trying to promote new names and american styling into those markets? Which could cost customer loyalty and brand recognition. In Europe Opel has a great following, but Chevy????
Same here, If you call them Opels here not many people remember when Buick sold them...

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

I have. Please see my previous post in this thread. The wikipedia link shows that a "corolla" is NOT the same everywhere!!! Different engines, different body styles, different badges.

I still believe that this may have been a direction that was good in the past but not now. We live in a global village where technology, innovation and advancement has brought us closer together and thus products do not need to be so different from one market to another. The cost of doing this does not outweigh the savings in streamlining and standardizing more than what is done now. JMO!

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Hylton

I still believe that this may have been a direction that was good in the past but not now. We live in a global village where technology, innovation and advancement has brought us closer together and thus products do not need to be so different from one market to another. The cost of doing this does not outweigh the savings in streamlining and standardizing more than what is done now. JMO!

Fine. But making things up like Toyota being oh so much better than GM at keeping brands the same isn't the way to argue your OPINION. GM and everyone else is trying to bring them all under one roof. Notice, the Camaro was built on a platform for Australian cars! Yea, they may have a different name plate down in Kangaroo land but that is done to keep customers. It's more about marketing at that point than it is anything else. How much does it really cost to stick a different badge on the car? Shoot, this could be done at the dealer!

It would be nice if GM could convince consumers globally to like the same things and just give up their brand loyalty but that's not going to happen overnight.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

...So while they are at it why not keep brands and styling cues that other countries are familiar with instead of trying to promote new names and american styling into those markets? Which could cost customer loyalty and brand recognition. In Europe Opel has a great following, but Chevy????
Same here, If you call them Opels here not many people remember when Buick sold them...

This change can be well managed. Having the Buick name doing well in China is proof that you can have American brands recognized and accepted in other cultures and countries.

How come Volvo, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda and BMW do not rename their brands in other countries? Seems to work fine for them and think about the money they save by not having another brand burning up money.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Hylton

This change can be well managed. Having the Buick name doing well in China is proof that you can have American brands recognized and accepted in other cultures and countries.

How come Volvo, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda and BMW do not rename their brands in other countries? Seems to work fine for them and think about the money they save by not having another brand burning up money.

You're forgetting that many of the foreign brands were their own companies and later purchased by GM; Vauxhall and Holden for example. Yea, both of these were purchased by GM decades ago but it's not Waggoners fault they weren't changed over already.

And they DO rename brands in different countries. Lexus wasn't even available in Japan until 2005!!!!

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

You're forgetting that many of the foreign brands were their own companies and later purchased by GM; Vauxhall and Holden for example. Yea, both of these were purchased by GM decades ago but it's not Waggoners fault they weren't changed over already.

And they DO rename brands in different countries. Lexus wasn't even available in Japan until 2005!!!!

Lexus was made to challenge Cadillac and the european luxury brands - something Toyota didn't do in the past. I believe Cadillac should be one of the brands which GM should keep. Cadillac, Chevrolet and Buick - to everything else, I say merge into one of these 3.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Hylton

True. I just think it's something he should look if he really wants to change GM.

ugh. They are!!!! He's already done more to merge GM and make it a more "global" company than anyone could have imagined. People thought he was crazy making the changes they did a few years ago. I think this was all discussed in "Saving GM".