super or turbo

[JWz28]

Originally Posted by beerman985

damn that is pretty BA smoken a CR in a drag.? what kind were u doing this in. i race auto cross and just got a honda and thanking about maken a tuner out of. i beat a kawasaki zr 100 (i thank that was what it was) in an auto cross race usen a vette.

2002 Z06 with an LPE Stage II Twin Turbo....600+RWHP/RWTQ.

JWz28.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

I have 113 hp with my front 2 cylinders alone!!! N/A!!! hahah

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Front two cyllinders alone huh...you should be proud! lol

Really, a civic only got 113 hp turboed?:eek: Oh...right! That's why I don't buy them! Almost forgot, silly me.
And that's what I thought. I don't want to be touching my fenders, or drilling holes. Give me a belt and some bolts, and a 400hp N/A fire-breather, and I'll teach those turbos a lesson they won't soon forget.

believe me... I am.


X2

Originally Posted by beerman985

he has 324 horspower out of the car and well make a 1/4 in about 13 sec with nos

423hp/431tq - N/A 1/4 = 12.01 w/o nos

[stevenm357]

yupp... the Z06's were bad assed even back then.

The home of the fastest LS1 is Hardcore Motor Sports in Michigan, they use turbos.

If you do a super charger or turbo right your going to intercool it which means taking a lot of that crap off any way. New injectors, new or additional fuel pump. would hope at that point you would want to go for some chassis stiffening because you push too much the cars bend. Yes, it's more work to install a turbo. You need to install new headers, and an oil line to the turbo. where you have to real careful with the oil line, drilling a hole and tapping it can be bad if you let any shavings get in it. don't you have to do that on a center fugal super charger too?

if you just wanna say "umm yeah i got boost" or "i can beat your stock car any day" fine. but if you want a screaming street machine that sounds cool as hell... you go turbo. in the end it really is just prefrence. as there are some very impressive super charger cars out there too.

[JWz28]

Beerman:

Just for kicks here a link to my TT Vette Dyno Pull:

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/show...cat=500&page=1

There was no Turbo Lag. By 4000rpm you had almost 550 RWTQ and slightly over 400 RWHP on a dyno. On the street it hits even harder b/c of the clean air being pushed through the intercoolers.

If you are interested in comparing set ups, talk to as many people as you can and look at dyno graphs. Peak HP means nothing....How much area is under the curve is what matters...the sooner and smoother you are into power the better.

JWz28.

[MerF]

Beautiful set-up JW.

[stevenm357]

Nice setup.. turbos rule!

[JWz28]

Thx guys.

JWz28.

[JWz28]

A couple of examples of what a Twin Turbo can do:



http://www.torquenstein.net/movies/i...s_JoesGTTT.wmv

The second one is long but worth the watch. Also there is some bad language so not work friendly / or kid friendly.

JWz28.

[TFord]

well its gotta be a positive displacement blower (roots style) not really a big turbo fan because I look at it like this. SC, and turbo are both the same thing. air pums, turbo's are too difficult to build, squeezing exhaust manifold, external wastegate, turbo, intake, intercooler piping and downpipe elbow under the hood and once you've got the thing in then comes the tuning. cant forget about getting a great boot controller because turbocharger systems reference their boost levels based on outside air conditions, care must be taken to ensure proper boost control under all driving conditions. Crawling through traffic on a sunny day and blasting along on a cold, rainy night are two completely different situations that can produce large differences in the amount of air a turbo machine ingests. The same precaution exists for taking a turbo car to different altitudes. then you have all the extra maint. and if you waistegate sticks shut you'll get a detonation wave that will destroy your engine. and I havent even got into turbolag, boost threshold. positive displacement is the way to go, it will make a V6 feel like a V8(thats why its called positive displacement). Im not going to try to fix up anything with less than 300hp stock, so in my camaro thats already got good top end, the blower will make large amounts of low and midrange power unlike a turbo. realistically the best turbo setup and roots blower for most cars will put them around the same HP. usually the turbo up by 10-15hp. at that point its down to who is the best driver. by the way Im not a turbo hater my uncle fabs turbo systems for a lot of Fbodys, and stangs. and they are bad ass untill something goes wrong. and a blower is nearly maint. free.

[Mr. Wyndham]

now see, I agree with you 100%, but I've heard that the maintinance deal was opposite what you say...not questioning you, just the facts...

And not for anything, but in a drag - wouldn't a supercharger (against a turbo with same boost) win 90% of the time...that whole instant power thing...

[TFord]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

now see, I agree with you 100%, but I've heard that the maintinance deal was opposite what you say...not questioning you, just the facts...

And not for anything, but in a drag - wouldn't a supercharger (against a turbo with same boost) win 90% of the time...that whole instant power thing...

yeah the turbo requires maint. thats why when you find one for cheap on ebay in small print it will say "needs rebuild, or replace internals" roots blower usually doesn't require any oil pan replacement or tapping and, the supplied blower is self-contained and retains OEM-level reliability All engine tuning has been completed in-house and there is no need for you to do any tweaking or tuning on your own. so nearly maint. free.

as for a drag between SC and turbo. Ill always favor the blower...but at the same time there are a lot of variables with turbos and you might find yourself bitting off more than you can chew. blowers do have the "instant power thing on its side" its like displacement on demand. blowers will always shovel the same amount of air relative to the engine, even low in the rev range. Its like a low RPM response. turbos do have a boost threshold that people incorrectly call turbo lag, which dosent help in a drag. but if your pockets are deep enough banks has a turbo that nearly eliminates it...nearly. Ive seen a 69 camaro w/ top of the line blower beat a 800 hp twin turbo supra.
I know a guy in chicago with a 06 nissan fairlady with a stillen stage 4 blower that will destroy nearly everything out there.

[Mr. Wyndham]

When you say blower...you mean the SUPERcharger, right?

I've got anther question as well. After the Warranty on my Camaro wears of... I DEFINITLY plan an making it the baddest car on the street, and I plan to use a supercharger as the main ingredient. However, I would like to not have anything sticking out of my hood...sooo - what do you think of the centrifugal supercharger? I hear they are the most efficent, cheapest and smallest......

[TFord]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

When you say blower...you mean the SUPERcharger, right?

I've got anther question as well. After the Warranty on my Camaro wears of... I DEFINITLY plan an making it the baddest car on the street, and I plan to use a supercharger as the main ingredient. However, I would like to not have anything sticking out of my hood...sooo - what do you think of the centrifugal supercharger? I hear they are the most efficent, cheapest and smallest......

yeah when I say blower I mean supercharger. heres the deal with centrifugal supercharger. its basically a turbo with a belt driven pulley on the back and uses a longer belt. but it only spins as fast as the engine spins, so inside it has step up gearing that puts at around 60,000 rpm. with that being said the power gains are in the higher rpm's. so it works best on cars that have to be in the higher RPM's and have good low end power to compensate. you'll have to run a oil line from your oil pan or crank case to the supercharger. Im not the biggest fan of centrifugal superchargers because they're too much like turbochargers. and they're belts have been known to shred. but if you go this route vortec is the only way to go.

roots style blower the air isnt actually compressed. its gathered and forced into the engine making positive pressure (boost) as the air backs up into the intake manifold. Because the blower doesn't use any step up gearing and doesn't need to spin very quickly, the internal rotors always turn at the same RPM as the engine. so the blower will always force the same amount of air relative to the engine, even low in the rev range. Making the powerband feel like it came from a larger displacement engine. the only downside is its size, and heat. heat is taken care of by air to water intercooler system built into the blower and it all replaces the upper intake plenum and rests right on top of the engine. a cowl inuction hood would work just fine...but depending on the clearance the stock hood may work too. its all on what you like best

[Mr. Wyndham]

Cool, thanks...since this decision is YEARS away - I have time to think...but that helped!