MERGED: Has anyone read this (bankruptcy) about GM?

[BeermanSS]

well, they lasted quite awhile doing just that. But even GM realized their market share was shrinking.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

well, they lasted quite awhile doing just that. But even GM realized their market share was shrinking.

To play the devil's advocate then, I would say that they are getting their due.

[BeermanSS]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

Let me say first off, I am a GM man. Both grandfathers and my father worked at Harrison's (now Delphi) in Lockport, NY. I grew up with all GM's and probably will stay that way. I think the problem with what your saying is this. For 20 years, GM vehicles were crappy. Execs didn't care about what consumers wanted. The build quality was terrible, materials were cheaper than vietnam hooker. They made shitty cars and they expected people to continue to buy their cars because they didn't forsee competition actually hurting them. Thought they were too big and people would always buy from GM first. Turned out they were wrong. I think GM is paying the price not for the last 5-10 years, but for the 20 years prior to that. GM cars and trucks have gotten a lot better from the mid to late 90's to now. But worst thing for GM is this. It is much much harder to gain a customer back that you lost, than it is to keep an existing customer or gain someone new to the market. To regain a customer that you lost for reasons of poor quality, poor value, poor resale, etc., you have to spend (cannot remember the exact #'s) approx 3 times as much than to keep that customer in the first place. GM is at a point now, where they must spend tons on marketing and ads to try to reattract customers that they lost. Its not about patriotism or buying American made, although I want to thank Fbodfather for pointing out all the Chevys that they build in the U.S. It's about getting a product that has quality. Like Fbod said, they still get people asking for the oldmobiles at auto shows, they're are still a lot of people that think GM cars are still what they were from the late 70's to the mid to late 90's. So even though their current product line is very good, and very competitive. There are a lot of people who were turned of to GM's and other domestics, that have yet to be won back. It will take a lot of effort, and they may not ever come back. Its not because their unpatriotic or unamerican, its GM reaping what they sowed the last 20 years.

That being said. I will continue to buy GM now, because I know they now make a good, quality, reliable, competitive car again. And I cannot wait to get my Camaro and later, the Volt.

P.S. I am in a bit of the same boat. I get out of college, I have a lot of education and some experience. Most places want someone with more experience. Doesn't 5 years of studying that field count for anything. Come on, companies want too much. Guess what I can learn on the job. They want my age, education, but someone with 2-4 years of experience. That person doesn't exist. And its great for my to have shelled out all this money for the education they require, but do they want to pay me what that education is worth to them, Hell no.

I'm quoting my own post. But your not my devils advocate. LOL

[Hesh]

Yep i did...lol. Since this is a car site not a political site thought id keep those opinions to myself. Politics and religion are two areas I try to avoid discussing because most of the time no matter what side you are on the other is not going to even try and see your point of view.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

I'm quoting my own post. But your not my devils advocate. LOL

Is that allowed? ;-) Hey listen, they won me over with the Camaro so it is possible that they will do that with lots of other people too. However, they can't expect to not pay a price for 20 years of pissing on customers. I hope for them that the Camaro, Volt, and others are just what the doctor ordered.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by Hesh

Yep i did...lol. Since this is a car site not a political site thought id keep those opinions to myself. Politics and religion are two areas I try to avoid discussing because most of the time no matter what side you are on the other is not going to even try and see your point of view.

I just saw this on another thread and I thought it was pretty appropriate here. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by bouncertime

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

well, they lasted quite awhile doing just that. But even GM realized their market share was shrinking.

Probably not until they paid 50 million dollars for a 10 year research project to tell them so...

[Rodrunner]

The Big Three
They've put out some cheap crap in the past few decades, but they didn't go under (except for Chrysler, almost). Yeah, they lost sales to the other makers, but they stayed afloat. And now they've seen the light and are making decent, reliable cars. So why they goin' under? All I know is the UAW hourly worker salary (all 3 corps.) is $73.20/hr, yeah, and Toyota's hourly rate is $48.00/hr. Just read that today and was amazed. That sure isn't helping.
And now that gas prices are down, I personally am not being affected by this economic downturn whatsoever, except for my 401K and home value, which I'm just going to ride out. Oh sure, costs and prices have gone up, but not at inflationary rates, and so has my salary. So why are people not buying cars? WE ARE! Are we so special, all financially independent? I think not.

Jobs
And to keep jobs in the U.S., how about we lower the corporate tax rate which is the highest, or at least one of the highest, in the world. Who can blame them for going elsewhere to munufacture. But now, the new administration is not only not going to reduce those taxes, but close corporate loopholes...goodbye more jobs!!

Whatever the answer is, the light at the end of the tunnel is still in the far distance.


2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

Jobs
And to keep jobs in the U.S., how about we lower the corporate tax rate which is the highest, or at least one of the highest, in the world. Who can blame them for going elsewhere to munufacture. But now, the new administration is not only not going to reduce those taxes, but close corporate loopholes...goodbye more jobs!!

Corporations going outside of the US is probably caused more by your point in the first paragraph than taxes. Wages in the US are crazy-high compared to other countries. Wages in Japan, China, Thailand, Philippines, etc, are all factors lower than here in the US. Put on top of that health care, retirement plans, environmental standards, etc, and that's why companies are going to other countries.

[Nickdago]

Taxes however play a large part of a companies decisions as well as others with lots of that green stuff as far as where they put their dollars. We may be in bigger doo doo than most of us realize. Today the Treasury decided that what they all told us was so critical to save our economy is now not so important. Now they are going to put the money somewhere else, but of course not to the car companies. Anyone else here get the idea they have no clue as to what they are doing.

[shadowed_Stranger]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

The Big Three
They've put out some cheap crap in the past few decades, but they didn't go under (except for Chrysler, almost). Yeah, they lost sales to the other makers, but they stayed afloat. And now they've seen the light and are making decent, reliable cars. So why they goin' under? All I know is the UAW hourly worker salary (all 3 corps.) is $73.20/hr, yeah, and Toyota's hourly rate is $48.00/hr. Just read that today and was amazed. That sure isn't helping.
And now that gas prices are down, I personally am not being affected by this economic downturn whatsoever, except for my 401K and home value, which I'm just going to ride out. Oh sure, costs and prices have gone up, but not at inflationary rates, and so has my salary. So why are people not buying cars? WE ARE! Are we so special, all financially independent? I think not.

Jobs
And to keep jobs in the U.S., how about we lower the corporate tax rate which is the highest, or at least one of the highest, in the world. Who can blame them for going elsewhere to munufacture. But now, the new administration is not only not going to reduce those taxes, but close corporate loopholes...goodbye more jobs!!

Whatever the answer is, the light at the end of the tunnel is still in the far distance.


2SS/RS Black/Black w-Cyber Gray stripes/Auto ordered-10/18/08

exactly why I wouldn't buy the magnet fbodfather posted... Becuase it is union made.

The recent UAW strike is the perfect example of how ****ed up everything is. The workers at a transmisison plant that supplied to ford went on strike, and ford said "fine we will buy transmissions from here, they hire nonunion workers and we get better quality transmissions at a cheaper price." So then the UAW sued ford, and ford had to continue buying transmissions from the same plant.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by shadowed_Stranger

exactly why I wouldn't buy the magnet fbodfather posted... Becuase it is union made.

That's oddly hypocritical. The Unions (for the most part) make the American products that the sticker you agree with advertises...

SOME unions are definitely out-of-whack...and the UAW is the loudest, unfortunately. But not all unions are bad (coming from experience)...and they are not the scourge of the earth. If you really agree with what that sticker says...I recommend you get it. You're not supporting a union by flashing it; you're supporting American jobs, which just happen to be unionized (for the most part).



Onto the rest of the thread, please try to keep politics to a bare minimum, please. Thank you -- you guys are great!!

[kdbolt70]

Originally Posted by trm0002

Simple question (don't mean to pry), what did you take in college? What's your degree and/or practical experience?

I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science from the University of Michigan. I now work for a software company north of Detroit, doing all sorts of fun stuff. I started off in school as an Astrophysics major, but decided to move to CS because of its practicality, and its (relatively) ripe job market. I have worked with computers since I was little, and worked many IT jobs throughout college.

When I get home from work, I usually do one of two things: Study for the GMATs, which I hope to take this winter, or continue developing my personal code base. I intend on starting a business in the software industry (hence the GMATs), and I am developing a product currently that I intend on going public with in Q1 next year. I enjoy it, and it has the potential to be rather lucrative. As of now I still view it primarily as a valuable learning experience, but I am very driven to start an effective and successful business within the next 5 years.

Hope that answered your question

Oh, just turned 22 on Saturday, if that matters. Hooray for birthdays that don't matter!

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by kdbolt70

I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science from the University of Michigan. I now work for a software company north of Detroit, doing all sorts of fun stuff. I started off in school as an Astrophysics major, but decided to move to CS because of its practicality, and its (relatively) ripe job market. I have worked with computers since I was little, and worked many IT jobs throughout college.

When I get home from work, I usually do one of two things: Study for the GMATs, which I hope to take this winter, or continue developing my personal code base. I intend on starting a business in the software industry (hence the GMATs), and I am developing a product currently that I intend on going public with in Q1 next year. I enjoy it, and it has the potential to be rather lucrative. As of now I still view it primarily as a valuable learning experience, but I am very driven to start an effective and successful business within the next 5 years.

Hope that answered your question

Oh, just turned 22 on Saturday, if that matters. Hooray for birthdays that don't matter!

Like I said- don't mean to pry, but thanks for your answer(s)- all who did. And Happy Birthday (belated).

What I was trying to illustrate is what I said earlier; very few people are getting into what has long been considered the "skilled trades". Not to belittle your field in any way; it too is a very necessary, integral part of today's society. Point being that our society is moving from "manual labor" do-ers to thinkers for lack of a better term. Who today goes to college to become a skilled factory worker or a plumber or a pipe-fitter or or or... Even the "trade" schools today are 99% IT. Nothing gets built by IT graduates; well, that might not be fair but you know what I mean. There is an increasing stigma about working in manufacturing; you know having a "dirty" job where you can't wear khakis and a button-down shirt to work. This country was built by BUILDING things not buying them built from somewhere overseas and shipping them in. That's what's happening and that is a major issue that if not corrected, WILL ultimately be our downfall. We were the most industrious nation on the planet and that's what made us the most powerful. Not in the sense of supreme over others but able to take care of ourselves without them.

-end rant-