Electric Vehicles

[90503]

I don't think the Level 2 cords are getting stolen, it would be the Level 3 at charging stations, correct?

So if a Level 3 cord is missing/stolen, one can use their own Level 2 cord at a charging station...?

I thought perhaps the level 3 cords could be the BYOC at a station, but I guess not...?

P.S. until now I never knew any cord was carried with the car....lol...

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

We were talking about general public chargers. Not sure what all that stuff you thought we were talking about.

The point from Iron Lung Jimmy was public Charger cables getting hacked off and stolen for the copper.

Not sure what you thought we were talking about

And eliminating cabled public charging stations is just asking for trouble. Making people carry their own cables every where they go is a sure way for people to lose them.

I know, I know…… YOU would never lose them but trust me, there’s plenty of average Americans who’d be SOL if they had to make sure they kept their cable with them all the time and then ran out of charge in the middle of nowhere.

I sorta started the conversation on public chargers operating BYOC so it would seem to follow that I probably know what the topic is, even if you are a bit confused about the difference between Level 2 and DC Fast Chargers. No big deal. Most people don’t understand the nuance. But I did detail that I was talking low power chargers.

I don’t think I suggested REPLACING corded chargers with cordless chargers. So let me just say for the record that I am not saying that. I am pointing out that there are a number of solutions coming to market for public charging including chargers built into light posts and chargers built into curbs. In those two situations they will not have a cord built-in. The EV driver will need to provide one. And that is not an obstacle. Roughly the same space requirement as jumper cables.

If someone is in a position to potentially run out of charge, they don’t want to use the mobile connector anyway. That’s when you need to find a Level 3 DC Fast Charger, like the one you posted a picture off, and take care of it. I would expect that this would only occur on long trips away from home, so the plan would already include stopping at Level 3 DC Fast Chargers.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I sorta started the conversation on public chargers operating BYOC so it would seem to follow that I probably know what the topic is, even if you are a bit confused about the difference between Level 2 and DC Fast Chargers. No big deal. Most people don’t understand the nuance. But I did detail that I was talking low power chargers.

If I’m confused trust me the average general public American will be lost.

If you’re not an engineer or early adapter with addicted interest in EVs, your average American is just gonna want to charge their car. Don’t care how, or whether it’s level 2 or 3 or version 35.6.42.109, Android or Apple, or how many cables come with the car or how the cables fit or how they work.

They see the charge is low in their car, need fuel, want fuel, pull into charger to fuel up. And go. That’s it. That’s all. Nothing more.

Simple. No garbage or engineering gibberish.

Everything needs to be standardized across the entire global automotive industry for every EV ever made.

You know, like ICE.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

If I’m confused trust me the average general public American will be lost.

If you’re not an engineer or early adapter with addicted interest in EVs, your average American is just gonna want to charge their car. Don’t care how, or whether it’s level 2 or 3 or version 35.6.42.109, Android or Apple, or how many cables come with the car or how the cables fit or how they work.

They see the charge is low in their car, need fuel, want fuel, pull into charger to fuel up. And go. That’s it. That’s all. Nothing more.

Simple. No garbage or engineering gibberish.

Everything needs to be standardized across the entire global automotive industry for every EV ever made.

You know, like ICE.

Anyone who drives an electric car for more than a day understands the things I’m talking about. Those who don’t understand don’t need to understand but can figure it out quickly if they really want to know.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Anyone who drives an electric car for more than a day understands the things I’m talking about. Those who don’t understand don’t need to understand but can figure it out quickly if they really want to know.

Most people aren’t engineers or enthusiasts. Please remove your engineering hat for 5 minutes.

Heck most people have no idea what gasoline engine they have now or how gas works, nor will they ever be interested or want to know nor should they need to know.

You don’t need to know how gasoline makes an internal combustion engine work to drive it. Most people only know gas is flammable and makes the vroom-vroom under the hood to make your car go.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by olrocker

If I’m confused trust me the average general public American will be lost.

If you’re not an engineer or early adapter with addicted interest in EVs, your average American is just gonna want to charge their car. Don’t care how, or whether it’s level 2 or 3 or version 35.6.42.109, Android or Apple, or how many cables come with the car or how the cables fit or how they work.

They see the charge is low in their car, need fuel, want fuel, pull into charger to fuel up. And go. That’s it. That’s all. Nothing more.

Simple. No garbage or engineering gibberish.

Everything needs to be standardized across the entire global automotive industry for every EV ever made.

You know, like ICE.

I agree with this. The charging stuff needs to be standardized. Just like phone chargers are about to be. iPhone/Android chargers being different should have made this a simple point for EV charging to be standard across the board.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Most people aren’t engineers or enthusiasts. Please remove your engineering hat for 5 minutes.

My wife isnt an engineer either but she had no problem figuring it out, neither have any of the other EV owners I know.

Theres also no reports of EV cable theft here in UK apart from a few fake news stories, we have 63,000 charging points and 1.1m EVs, Im feeling it probably isnt the big problem its being made out to be.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I agree with this. The charging stuff needs to be standardized. Just like phone chargers are about to be. iPhone/Android chargers being different should have made this a simple point for EV charging to be standard across the board.

It’s moving that way. In the US and Canada pretty much everybody is moving away from CCS Combo to Tesla North American Charging Standard (NACS). The irony here is that everywhere else in the world Tesla uses CCS Combo

The rest of the world is converging around CCS Combo. There are still a few applications that use CHAdeMO but it tends to be Japanese manufacturers and they appear to be moving to CCS Combo, with some CHAdeMO still available in Japan.

The issue of misunderstanding in this thread appears to be around low power Level 2 AC charging vs high power Level 3 DC fast charging. This is something that is easy to understand unless someone just doesn’t want to understand it or wants to obfuscate it for others.

[90503]

The part I'm confused/surprised about is the cord itself...lol

At a charging station you must use their cord.

If you charge at home you have it set-up for your own vehicle.

Why would you need to carry a cord at all?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

The part I'm confused/surprised about is the cord itself...lol

At a charging station you must use their cord.

If you charge at home you have it set-up for your own vehicle.

Why would you need to carry a cord at all?

Good question!

At home you can use an installed wall charger (or post if it’s installed outside). It’s low power, typically 6.6 - 11.5 kW AC and it has the cable attached. Done.

On the road you can access Fast Chargers. They are DC, not AC. They operate at high power (50 - 350 kW). Cable is attached. Done.

Now suppose you are going on a trip and staying at a place that will allow you to plug in, but doesn’t have a charger. Most EVs come with or have available a travel set, or mobile connector. These can plug into any 110V or 220V outlet. There are also a number of parking garages that have 220V plug outlets, but no installed charger. In any of these cases, a mobile connector can be plugged in to charge the car at low power, like a Level 2.

Best real world example I can give…I flew to Ft. Lauderdale for a conference a few months ago. Parked the Tesla at a lot near the airport. In several parts of the lot they had 220V junction boxes. I used the mobile connector to plug the car in and it stayed there for 3 days. When I got back I just unplug, put the connector back in the car and move on.

Some EV owners choose to NOT install a wall charger. They opt to use the mobile connector at home, plugged into a 220V line. Takes longer to charge than an installed unit, but if you are charging overnight it gets the job done.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

I don't think the Level 2 cords are getting stolen, it would be the Level 3 at charging stations, correct?

It could be either. I would think the most likely would be Level 2 cords at gyms, shopping centers, gas stations where we’re starting to see more Level 2 chargers installed.

Originally Posted by 90503

So if a Level 3 cord is missing/stolen, one can use their own Level 2 cord at a charging station...?

I thought perhaps the level 3 cords could be the BYOC at a station, but I guess not...?

Level 3 cords are not BYOC. For CCS, the interfaces are different. Home / Level 2 chargers only have the top circular part of the plug included (referring to my picture in the post above). The bottom two connect points are required for fast charging. The Tesla NACS plug is physically the same for both low and high power charging, but the power module included in the mobile connector can only accept AC at low power.

Originally Posted by 90503

P.S. until now I never knew any cord was carried with the car....lol...

Interesting. I guess since we’ve had plug-in cars in our household since 2012 I’ve kinda taken that for granted. It’s there so that if people choose to not install a home charger or live in a situation where they don’t have a dedicated plug-in spot, they can access power through wall sockets or other installations.

[Capricio]

What AWG size is the typical Level3 charging cable? I assume it must be pretty beefy if it is feeding "low" voltage DC power. How much can an entrepreneurial recycling enthusiast experiencing homelessness hope to haul off from a single node?

[Mr_Draco]

A level 3 at 350kw would need a minimum of 1/0. Actually found several companies that make charging cables capable of handling level 3 chargers and they all use two 60 mm2 cables as the main charging cables which is between 1/0 and 2/0. So yea, pretty beefy.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Good question!

At home you can use an installed wall charger (or post if it’s installed outside). It’s low power, typically 6.6 - 11.5 kW AC and it has the cable attached. Done.

On the road you can access Fast Chargers. They are DC, not AC. They operate at high power (50 - 350 kW). Cable is attached. Done.

Now suppose you are going on a trip and staying at a place that will allow you to plug in, but doesn’t have a charger. Most EVs come with or have available a travel set, or mobile connector. These can plug into any 110V or 220V outlet. There are also a number of parking garages that have 220V plug outlets, but no installed charger. In any of these cases, a mobile connector can be plugged in to charge the car at low power, like a Level 2.

Best real world example I can give…I flew to Ft. Lauderdale for a conference a few months ago. Parked the Tesla at a lot near the airport. In several parts of the lot they had 220V junction boxes. I used the mobile connector to plug the car in and it stayed there for 3 days. When I got back I just unplug, put the connector back in the car and move on.

Some EV owners choose to NOT install a wall charger. They opt to use the mobile connector at home, plugged into a 220V line. Takes longer to charge than an installed unit, but if you are charging overnight it gets the job done.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It could be either. I would think the most likely would be Level 2 cords at gyms, shopping centers, gas stations where we’re starting to see more Level 2 chargers installed.

Level 3 cords are not BYOC. For CCS, the interfaces are different. Home / Level 2 chargers only have the top circular part of the plug included (referring to my picture in the post above). The bottom two connect points are required for fast charging. The Tesla NACS plug is physically the same for both low and high power charging, but the power module included in the mobile connector can only accept AC at low power.

Interesting. I guess since we’ve had plug-in cars in our household since 2012 I’ve kinda taken that for granted. It’s there so that if people choose to not install a home charger or live in a situation where they don’t have a dedicated plug-in spot, they can access power through wall sockets or other installations.

Thanks for the responses, but just one more clarification about the things in bold...

110 v charging (Level 1) I seem to recall as having been described as pretty much inadequate for overnight....The 220 outlet usage is still "Level 1" ?...I guess I don't grasp what a home charger (Level 2 ?) advantage is over a 220 outlet if that will full charge over night at home.

The non-home, non-charger installations you mentioned, at a hotel, for instance, are free?

Does anyone really use 110 level 1 charging as an adequate way to charge? (Seems like a stretch), just sayin'.