2015 Challenger Hellcat 707 HP

[96MrBass]

These kitkat stories just keep getting more n more interesting.

[HEMI DAVE]

Originally Posted by Whos_Drivin

All good and wonderful if you put a lot of stock in "estimated quarter-mile" times.

Well this aint estimated............

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by HEMI DAVE

Well this aint estimated............

Yes, the ONLY "source" that has come close to Dodge's marketing claims, albeit at a disappointing trap speed (122mph). What did Cars.com get when they reviewed the ZL1 and GT500 at that drag strip?? Also, what were the 0-60, braking, slolam and figure 8 results?

[Hell Cat 1]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Sales are a strong indicator of a successful product. Shuttering your factory because inventory is stacking up on dealer lots is not. Viper sales are -63% YOY and last year (the launch year) was a terrible year for Viper sales. Corvette sales are +219% YOY. By comparison, in this price range, Nissan and Audi sold twice as many GT-R's and R8's respectively last month as Dodge sold Vipers.

When the base model costs $102,845 it had better blow by your SS. But when is the last time a new Viper pulled up next to you on the street? I have seen ONE in the wild since the new generation hit the streets.



I am GRATEFUL the Viper exists - it is a raw American sports car without question. The problem is it costs waaaaay too much for its performance and overall packaging. IMO the Viper needs a base model priced closer to the Corvette ($6X,XXX or so).



Not close? More like too close for comfort.

Edmunds.com
Horsepower: Corvette: 460hp; Viper 640hp
Acceleration: Corvette: 12.39 @ 113.7; Viper: 11.72 @ 124.1
Braking: Corvette: 99ft; Viper: 110ft
Slolam: Corvette: 73.5mph; Viper: 72.0mph
Skid Pad: Corvette: 1.05g; Viper: 0.98g
Road Course: Corvette: 84.55 sec; Viper: 83.94 sec
Price: Corvette: $69,675; Viper: $101,990

Other than the straight-line horsepower advantage, the new Viper falls flat on its face. There is no reason a track-oriented car should be out-braked and out-handled by a car costing $30,000 less. Only six-tenths of a second faster around a road course for $30,000 more? That is embarrassing and the reason Viper sales are so dismal.

With the new Z06 announced, no one is willing to commit to the Viper after seeing what the base model C7 did to it.



What policy is that? Corvette had the LS3, Camaro had the LS3, Corvette had the LS7, Camaro had the LS7, Cadillac had the LSA, Camaro had the LSA.

The Viper and Vette matchup was disappointing...for Dodge. The then new 2013 Viper GTS aimed squarely at the outgoing ZR1 with it's 5y/o drivetrain was STILL 2 SECONDS SLOWER around Laguna Seca, while costing $15,000 more. With the Z06 due to hit the streets in Q1 2015, and Dodge only offering 5hp bump for 2015, it is going to be ugly.



Except when it isn't.

MotorTrend Laguna Lap:
2013 Viper GTS: 1:35.8
2013 Corvette ZR1: 1:33.7

Lightning Lap @ VIR
2013 ZL1: 2:57.5
2013 Hellcat: nolo contendere
2014 Hellcat: nolo contendere
2015 Hellcat: ????



I think Dodge is scared to death of the Mancat running high 11's / low 12's in the hands of reviewers. They are only making the Autocat available which is guaranteed to be the faster straight-line version and even its reviews have been underwhelming to date. Both the auto and manual versions of the ZL1 were available when the car launched and yet EVERY reviewer received the manual version, knowing full well the A6 would be quicker.



125mph is impressive for a $60,000 car. It is even more impressive for a $55,000 car.

GT500
Car&Driver: 0-60, 3.5sec; 1/4mile 11.8 @ 125mph; 3891lbs
MotorTrend: 0-60, 3.8sec; 1/4mile 11.6 @ 125.7mph; 3871lbs
Motorweek: 0-60, 3.5sec, 1/4mile 11.7 @ 126.0mph
Edmunds: 0-60, 3.9sec, 1/4mile 12.1 @ 120.6mph; 3870lbs
Road&Track: 0-60, 3.5sec, 1/4mile 11.7 @ 128.1mph



One upped? In what way? The 2015 C7 Z06 has more power (and will be unquestionably faster) than the 2015 Viper with it's 5hp bump. The C6 ZR1, at the end of a 5 year run, still slaughtered the all new 2013 Viper GTS around Laguna Seca by 2 seconds. Chevrolet offers an affordable sports car that punches will above its weight class. Dodge has nothing to compete with it for less than six-figures.



Another 11.7?? I thought the Autocat was supposed to be quick?

2014 laguna seca corvette lost Viper is king again. As for the 11.7 thought the hell cat was suppose to be fast Motor trend did the test on the street not the track and used the on board timer to get the time. http://wot.motortrend.com/watch-the-...ca-343439.html The corvette that won in 2013 was a ZR-1 $120,000 base price car not a 56,000 dollar car as some one stated.

[HEMI DAVE]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Yes, the ONLY "source" that has come close to Dodge's marketing claims, albeit at a disappointing trap speed (122mph). What did Cars.com get when they reviewed the ZL1 and GT500 at that drag strip?? Also, what were the 0-60, braking, slolam and figure 8 results?

LOL....Sometimes you just have to admit to yourself that your eyes aren't lying to you.......

Multiple 11.4's is no joke.....and done by an average Joe to boot

The "autocat" is the real deal.........You are in serious denial if you think otherwise....

Now I will give you that the 6 speed Hellcat is very suspect at this point....not only because of Edmunds run....but more because SRT has never released what it ran...... and keep pushing the auto.

So that may strongly indicate the 6 speed didn't run an impressive time during SRT testing.

[Hell Cat 1]

Originally Posted by Whos_Drivin

All good and wonderful if you put a lot of stock in "estimated quarter-mile" times.

Do you put any stock in NHRA certified 1/4 mile times?

[Hell Cat 1]

Originally Posted by Hell Cat 1

The post was about What I thought was the best buy not what you thought and the rest of the post were the facts.

Oh, yeah, and then you wanted someone to pay to see your time slip, a slip you may have found blown against a fence on the spectator side of the track? Wasn't that you, too? Shouldering your way to the front of the crowd so you could share WHAT new insight? Nothing, without a dash of misinformation?
I was called a liar before I posted the slip and a liar again after I posted the slip. I was told by hoho joe that I had never run at pacific raceways where the hell cat was certified by the NHRA. I posted my time slip from pacific raceways running a 12.1 and all you can do is blabber some crap about finding a time slip up against the fence. I should have bought a lotto ticket if I am that lucky. You are a real work of art.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Yes, the ONLY "source" that has come close to Dodge's marketing claims, albeit at a disappointing trap speed (122mph). What did Cars.com get when they reviewed the ZL1 and GT500 at that drag strip?? Also, what were the 0-60, braking, slolam and figure 8 results?

I don't think they bothered with any of that. Reading the article it seems they got the car, and went straight to the drag strip lol


And wow that edmunds time for the 6 speed was brutal. They normally are slower than the other magazines, but I thnk the others will be lucky to get a sub 12 pass

[Hell Cat 1]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Yes, and if the GT500 could dead hook with a trap speed of 125 it would produce a roughly 10.9 ET in a 3900lb car for $5,000 less than what Dodge is charging for the Autocat. I'm struggling to see how the Hellokitty offers anything more than what has already been done? The GT500 manual appears every bit as fast as the Hellokitty with magical 8-speed automatic. The ZL1 will likely (track tests TBD) be faster around anything with a turn. But the Dodge is more roomy!!! so there's that.

If the hell cat could dead hook it would be a 10.5 car If if if if if what if.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Hell Cat 1

As for the 11.7 thought the hell cat was suppose to be fast Motor trend did the test on the street not the track

...which is also the way they tested the GT500 (11.6) and ZL1 (12.2), as stated in their story...

What was that 6-Speed time again? How's it compare to their GT500 and ZL1 times?

Heap o' Hype for the OTC...One-Transmission Clydesdale...

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by Hell Cat 1

2014 laguna seca corvette lost Viper is king again.

Only took Dodge drafting a new special track edition, after the all new 2013 Viper GTS fell on its face, to eclipse the now discontinued ZR1 by a whopping 0.08 seconds around Laguna Seca.

2008 ACR 1:35.12
2009 ZR1 1:35.83
2010 ACR 1:33.92
2012 Z06 1:34.43
2013 GTS 1:35.77 lol
2013 ZR1 1:33.70
2013 TA 1:33.62

What was the ONLY difference between the 2013 and 2009 ZR1? Pilot Sport Cup vs PS2's respectively. No changes to the drivetrain, aerodynamics, suspension, nothing.
By contrast, the TA underwent a host of changes just to keep up with the Corvette.

"Equipped with lighter, stiffer parts swapped in to ready it for racing. Two-mode Bilstein Damptronic dampers get firmer settings and a lesser gap between modes than in the Viper GTS. The springs and anti-roll bars are tuned for stiffness, more camber is dialed in for more even tire temperatures, and there's a new X-brace across the front structure made of carbon fiber. A new front splitter and rear spoiler tweak the airflow. The Brembo rotors have more swept area. The tires are Pirelli P Zero Corsas." http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...st-drive-video

But a win is a win. Sadly for Dodge, it is a win against a 5+y/o car with a brand new C7 Z06 set to arrive Q1 2015. Everyone, including potential buyers recognize this.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/19/s...er-slow-sales/
http://jalopnik.com/is-the-650-hp-co...ers-1588262012

Originally Posted by Hell Cat 1

As for the 11.7 thought the hell cat was suppose to be fast Motor trend did the test on the street not the track and used the o board timer to get the time.

Does this look like a street to you?



Where do you think MotorTrend tested the ZL1 and GT500?

GT500: 0-60, 3.8sec; 1/4mile 11.6 @ 125.7mph; 3871lbs
Failcat: 0-60, 3.7sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 125.4mph; 4449lbs automatic
--ZL1: 0-60, 3.8sec; 1/4mile 12.1 @ 117.4mph; 4051lbs

Originally Posted by HEMI DAVE

LOL....Sometimes you just have to admit to yourself that's your eyes aren't lying to you.......

Multiple 11.4's is no joke.....and done by an average Joe to boot

The "autocat" is the real deal.........You are in serious denial if you think otherwise....

Only one source (Cars.com) has achieved 11.4, the others are listed below. How did the ZL1 and GT500 do on that same drag strip when Cars.com tested them?

2015 Challenger Failcat
MotorTrend: 0-60, 3.7sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 125.4mph; 4449lbs automatic
Car&Driver: 0-60, 3.6sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 126mph; 4488lbs automatic
Edmunds: 0-60, 4.8sec; 1/4mile 12.5 @ 118.8mph; 4454lbs

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Actually, the true irony of this picture is, they're at a track, reasonably prepped, with ALL the media there...and they NEVER TURNED THE CLOCKS ON!

Concrete launch pad. Obviously "groomed". Track rental fully paid. NO TIMES!

Instead, Mopar turns 'em loose on the STREETS to record times with the on-board thing-a-majiggy...and 12's ensue...and the fanboys backpedal. RICH!

But the kiddies enjoyed their field day at the track, and the "roller coaster" was AMAZING! They "ooooh'd" and awwwww'd" like little girls...but NO TIMES!

[HEMI DAVE]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Only took Dodge drafting a new special track edition, after the all new 2013 Viper GTS fell on its face, to eclipse the now discontinued ZR1 by a whopping 0.08 seconds around Laguna Seca.

2008 ACR 1:35.12
2009 ZR1 1:35.83
2010 ACR 1:33.92
2012 Z06 1:34.43
2013 GTS 1:35.77 lol
2013 ZR1 1:33.70
2013 TA 1:33.62

What was the ONLY difference between the 2013 and 2009 ZR1? Pilot Sport Cup vs PS2's respectively. No changes to the drivetrain, aerodynamics, suspension, nothing.
By contrast, the TA underwent a host of changes just to keep up with the Corvette.

"Equipped with lighter, stiffer parts swapped in to ready it for racing. Two-mode Bilstein Damptronic dampers get firmer settings and a lesser gap between modes than in the Viper GTS. The springs and anti-roll bars are tuned for stiffness, more camber is dialed in for more even tire temperatures, and there's a new X-brace across the front structure made of carbon fiber. A new front splitter and rear spoiler tweak the airflow. The Brembo rotors have more swept area. The tires are Pirelli P Zero Corsas." http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...st-drive-video

But a win is a win. Sadly for Dodge, it is a win against a 5+y/o car with a brand new C7 Z06 set to arrive Q1 2015. Everyone, including potential buyers recognize this.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/19/s...er-slow-sales/
http://jalopnik.com/is-the-650-hp-co...ers-1588262012



Does this look like a street to you?



Where do you think MotorTrend tested the ZL1 and GT500?

GT500: 0-60, 3.8sec; 1/4mile 11.6 @ 125.7mph; 3871lbs
Failcat: 0-60, 3.7sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 125.4mph; 4449lbs automatic
--ZL1: 0-60, 3.8sec; 1/4mile 12.1 @ 117.4mph; 4051lbs




Only one source (Cars.com) has achieved 11.4, the others are listed below. How did the ZL1 and GT500 do on that same drag strip when Cars.com tested them?

2015 Challenger Failcat
MotorTrend: 0-60, 3.7sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 125.4mph; 4449lbs automatic
Car&Driver: 0-60, 3.6sec; 1/4mile 11.7 @ 126mph; 4488lbs automatic
Edmunds: 0-60, 4.8sec; 1/4mile 12.5 @ 118.8mph; 4454lbs

Car.com are the only ones to my knowledge to actually take the car to a proper drag strip......that's where all the fast lists come from.....where all the real timers are......and that's all that counts ........11.4's....all day long.....by an average Joe ...who wasn't even launching it optimally....I will bet you in great air it will get into the 10's....we are talking "autocat"

Motor Trend does not test on a drag strip to get their numbers. That pic you show is them at Oregon with the other journalists to drive the Hellcat challenger....That is an unpreped part of the race track....might as well race on your local highway.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by HEMI DAVE

That is an unpreped part of the race track....might as well race on your local highway.

Dave...respectfully...there were journos there, that day, that walked out of their flip-flops, the launch area was so sticky. Watch the video from there. The guys on the line don't slip; they walk deliberately. The launch pad is CONCRETE...but it's fairly evenly BLACK...and there's wisps of "something" to the edges. Right?

"might as well race on your local highway" is NOT applicable on that day, on that track!

why no timers? The tree was working...why no timers?

And NO Manuals...at ALL!