I've a question for our police officers..

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Rayner

Actually, that's more wrong than the statement I made. Limits are made after an engineering firm tests a stretch of road and reports to the governing body what a "safe speed" is for that stretch of road. The governing body usually takes their recommendation and lowers it a good bit -- and that is what you see on those signs.

The "flow of traffic" sets the general tone for the group of people that are on the road at the same time. It's a well-known phenomenon.

next time you are "going with the flow of traffic" and get pulled over for speeding, tell the cop that story and see how loud he laughs at you.

I have heard that many many times from people I know that have gotten speeding tickets.. even my own son...

funny I always keep close to the speed limit no matter how fast the surrounding traffic is going, and have never got an obstructing traffic ticket....

[Rayner]

Originally Posted by brtaus

Well, this could be another entirely different debate.

Perhaps. But the things we are discussing are all very real.

Let's look at the facts:
1) Very few people do "the exact speed limit" all the time.
2) A populace, all traveling during rush hour, will eventually set its own traffic flow -- which is usually a bit higher than what the signs say.
3) Cops, many cops, say that a 'certain amount' over the limit is 'ok' and that they are told not to pull people over unless they hit a certain amount over the limit (though that changes depending on the department and where they are)

However, despite those, cops can still be found sitting on the side of the road with a radar or laser in their hand, waiting to nab as many people as they can.

Here's a question:

If cops say that a certain amount above the limit is "ok" and that amount changes depending on various factors; how can we possibly know how fast we can truly go legally?

I've seen two cops on this board saying they wouldn't pull you over for 12 mph over the limit. I've had one tell me that 5 mph over the limit is 'ok,' yet so many in this thread take the "you broke the law, you must suffer the consequences' stance.

Isn't 5 or 12 mph over the limit 'breaking the law?' But the cops themselves say that's 'ok.'

I'm just so confused. :(

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by JProberts

Hmmmm.....wait I'm still thinking.......

[Rayner]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

next time you are "going with the flow of traffic" and get pulled over for speeding, tell the cop that story and see how loud he laughs at you.

I have heard that many many times from people I know that have gotten speeding tickets.. even my own son...

Oh don't misunderstand. I don't say anything to the cop on the side of the road. I just take it to court and get it dismissed......every....single....time. I have no need to play "street lawyer." I have a real lawyer (two actually) who do that for me in the courtroom. One of them *successfully* defended a guy in a jury trial by *proving* that there is no "legal" speed limit in Texas (that is a LONG story/explanation).

And my record is cleeeeeeaaaaaaaaan. The last ticket to show on my record is so long ago, it doesn't even count for insurance purposes...*and*....it was in another state.

[Rayner]

Originally Posted by brtaus

Sure I have, but if the flow of traffic is going 90 MPH in a 65 MPH zone, does that mean it's okay for you to do 90 MPH?

The flow rarely gets that high. It's what shrinks would call a herd mentality. Considering the various factors -- traffic, the jackholes who can't merge, etc, 90 in a 65 would be really pushing it. However, traffic regularly 'flows' at around 10 mph higher than the limit.

[ud_lose]

5-12 over is still illegal, but I would rather get that guy doing 20+ over. I can only write one at a time.

[JProberts]

Originally Posted by Rayner

Oh don't misunderstand. I don't say anything to the cop on the side of the road. I just take it to court and get it dismissed......every....single....time. I have no need to play "street lawyer." I have a real lawyer (two actually) who do that for me in the courtroom.

And my record is cleeeeeeaaaaaaaaan. The last ticket to show on my record is so long ago, it doesn't even count for insurance purposes...*and*....it was in another state.

Wow two Lawyers, your either a banker or a drug dealer right?

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by Rayner

Perhaps. But the things we are discussing are all very real.

Let's look at the facts:
1) Very few people do "the exact speed limit" all the time.
2) A populace, all traveling during rush hour, will eventually set its own traffic flow -- which is usually a bit higher than what the signs say.
3) Cops, many cops, say that a 'certain amount' over the limit is 'ok' and that they are told not to pull people over unless they hit a certain amount over the limit (though that changes depending on the department and where they are)

However, despite those, cops can still be found sitting on the side of the road with a radar or laser in their hand, waiting to nab as many people as they can.

Here's a question:

If cops say that a certain amount above the limit is "ok" and that amount changes depending on various factors; how can we possibly know how fast we can truly go legally?

I've seen two cops on this board saying they wouldn't pull you over for 12 mph over the limit. I've had one tell me that 5 mph over the limit is 'ok,' yet so many in this thread take the "you broke the law, you must suffer the consequences' stance.

Isn't 5 or 12 mph over the limit 'breaking the law?' But the cops themselves say that's 'ok.'

I'm just so confused. :(

That's easy, you can legally drive however fast your lawmakers say you can drive (the posted speed limit). Of course, that is legally speaking. Reality speaking, you can drive however fast you know you can get away with, meaning if you know your police department will not pull you over doing 10 MPH or less over the limit, that is your limit.

For instance, in AZ, we have photo radar. It is widely known you will not get flashed for doing 9 MPH or below the posted limit; legal is 65 but you won't get flashed doing 74 MPH.

[Rayner]

Originally Posted by ud_lose

5-12 over is still illegal, but I would rather get that guy doing 20+ over. I can only write one at a time.

This is what you say. Yet how many do you think they get when they post 10 cops on the side of the freeway with the bike cop on the bridge nailing cars as they approach?

And if 5-12 over is illegal, why don't cops *always* pull someone over? The simple answer is that speed limits are arbitrary laws and cops know it. Sure, some love to pull people over. But some don't give a rat's @$$ about them. I had one cop pull me over and literally bend over backwards to make the ticket so easy to get out of it wasn't even funny. It was blatantly obvious he wasn't happy about getting 'speed trap duty' that day.

[Rayner]

Originally Posted by JProberts

Wow two Lawyers, your either a banker or a drug dealer right?

Nope. It's just that when I got home from the service, my first ticket came at such a bogus time. I was so ticked off by it that I researched it on the net and found in bold letters on hundreds of sites -- "DO NOT JUST 'PAY THE FINE'....THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO AND YOU'RE ONLY HURTING YOURSELF."

The reason I have two lawyers is that one handles tickets further north than the other one *and* will physically represent you in a JP court while the other keeps further south and handles JP tickets differently.

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by Rayner

The flow rarely gets that high. It's what shrinks would call a herd mentality. Considering the various factors -- traffic, the jackholes who can't merge, etc, 90 in a 65 would be really pushing it. However, traffic regularly 'flows' at around 10 mph higher than the limit.

I know, I was just using that as an example.

if the flow is going 70 in a 60, the guy doing 60 isn't wrong, he is doing the posted limit; can't fault him for that. Now if said guy is in the "fast" lane, that's a different story.

[Rayner]

Originally Posted by brtaus

That's easy, you can legally drive however fast your lawmakers say you can drive (the posted speed limit). Of course, that is legally speaking. Reality speaking, you can drive however fast you know you can get away with, meaning if you know your police department will not pull you over doing 10 MPH or less over the limit, that is your limit.

But that amount changes from place to place.

Originally Posted by brtaus

For instance, in AZ, we have photo radar. It is widely known you will not get flashed for doing 9 MPH or below the posted limit; legal is 65 but you won't get flashed doing 74 MPH.

There's something you can do about those cameras as well. I saw it on another message board. Think James Bond or Knight Rider.

[Rayner]

Originally Posted by brtaus

I know, I was just using that as an example.

if the flow is going 70 in a 60, the guy doing 60 isn't wrong, he is doing the posted limit; can't fault him for that. Now if said guy is in the "fast" lane, that's a different story.

Not technically wrong, no. But he's still disrupting the flow set by the herd.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by brtaus

That's easy, you can legally drive however fast your lawmakers say you can drive (the posted speed limit). Of course, that is legally speaking. Reality speaking, you can drive however fast you know you can get away with, meaning if you know your police department will not pull you over doing 10 MPH or less over the limit, that is your limit.

For instance, in AZ, we have photo radar. It is widely known you will not get flashed for doing 9 MPH or below the posted limit; legal is 65 but you won't get flashed doing 74 MPH.

I've been trying to explain the difference between the law and law enforcement for a long time on this forum. I have no idea why it's not sinking in.