2024 Camaro?

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Depends. How many cylinders you want (don’t say 8) and would you mind a bit of hybrid assist instead of a supercharger?

Realistically though, Corvette will likely be one of the last ICE vehicles GM makes. It’s iconic and profitable. What more can you ask. So it’ll probably have ICE versions (with V8) until the end of 2034. Mustang will still be around and will include hybrid variants. Question is, how long will the V8, with or without hybrid, be viable. Remember, Ford only has one car (Mustang) to carry the weight of their EPA CAFE requirements. If a V8 hybrid can’t fit within the regulations AND if it becomes too expensive for the average consumer, they could easily drop the V8. Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc are all transitioning to hybrids and/or EVs. Who am I leaving out?

Agreed and unfortunately the Corvette has pretty much moved up into another income bracket. You really need to spend about $80k MSRP to get a C8 2LT Z51. in the current market that trim is $100k easy. A base Z06 at $106k before options and markups. A moderately loaded up Z06 will be the $140k range, loaded Z06 convertibles, forget about it. That is a lot of money for a car that typically sit in the garage until nice days on the weekend.

So, if GM replaces the more affordable Camaro with an EV coupe/sedan it won't be cheap at least for any desirable trim with more range and higher power output. Look at the Blazer SS. $66k and will probably be higher by the time it releases. Then you have this big unknown as it relates the the resale market of EVs. You really can't own these vehicles long term if a new battery is going to cost $15-20k. My Tesla is going on 4 years old and I am already thinking of trading it. If I waited until there is little warranty left or cross the 100k mile mark, the car will drop $20k in value overnight. They really need drive down battery replacement costs to realistic levels.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Agreed and unfortunately the Corvette has pretty much moved up into another income bracket. You really need to spend about $80k MSRP to get a C8 2LT Z51. in the current market that trim is $100k easy. A base Z06 at $106k before options and markups. A moderately loaded up Z06 will be the $140k range, loaded Z06 convertibles, forget about it. That is a lot of money for a car that typically sit in the garage until nice days on the weekend.

So, if GM replaces the more affordable Camaro with an EV coupe/sedan it won't be cheap at least for any desirable trim with more range and higher power output. Look at the Blazer SS. $66k and will probably be higher by the time it releases. Then you have this big unknown as it relates the the resale market of EVs. You really can't own these vehicles long term if a new battery is going to cost $15-20k. My Tesla is going on 4 years old and I am already thinking of trading it. If I waited until there is little warranty left or cross the 100k mile mark, the car will drop $20k in value overnight. They really need drive down battery replacement costs to realistic levels.

We’re working on a battery end-of-life study for a client. I cannot say more than that and over time I have probably said too much on the subject already

As far as the often quoted $15-20k to replace a battery I can say that this is a mis-informed number (MBA-ese for “wrong” ).

GM’s Ultium battery system in particular is engineered with the capability to replace individual modules. It is even designed so that the new modules will have plug & play interaction with previously existing models in the battery pack. So repairing the battery can be just a function of replacing the specific modules that go bad. There are dozens of modules in each battery pack.

There is also a lot of work going on right now in the battery recycling and battery remanufacturing arenas. By the time EVs are here in high volume, availability of lower cost remanufactured battery packs for out of warranty replacement will be the norm. In the meantime, all EV manufacturers have to warranty the battery for 8 years / 100,000 mile minimum. Some warranty for 10 years.

[GreenZLE]

At a minimum, we will need to double our electric generating capacity. I'm not against it, but it's absurd to try to double production while eliminating fossil fuel power generation. Most of the country is under threat of rolling blackouts now. There's no need for it. Doubling capacity WITH retaining fossil fuels is a huge undertaking. Lets do that FIRST!

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

Most of the country is under threat of rolling blackouts now.

I'm familiar with issues in states like CA and TX, but haven't seen where it's the majority of the country. Will you please share the sources that show it's a problem for most of us?

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by Slippy

I'm familiar with issues in states like CA and TX, but haven't seen where it's the majority of the country. Will you please share the sources that show it's a problem for most of us?

Southeastern US. This doesn’t mention blackout specifically but states maximum capacity.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/mon...nd/7613560001/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

At a minimum, we will need to double our electric generating capacity. I'm not against it, but it's absurd to try to double production while eliminating fossil fuel power generation. Most of the country is under threat of rolling blackouts now. There's no need for it. Doubling capacity WITH retaining fossil fuels is a huge undertaking. Lets do that FIRST!

How do you come to the conclusion that generation capacity needs to double?

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

Southeastern US. This doesn’t mention blackout specifically but states maximum capacity.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/mon...nd/7613560001/

Seems like an exaggeration to say most of the US based on that article. Article states highest ever capacity of 31,311 megawatts, I'm missing where it states that is the maximum capacity.
""We're at the beginning of a heat wave," Lyash said. "Other systems will falter because they're short on electricity. TVA will not."

[CW3SF]

Originally Posted by Slippy

Seems like an exaggeration to say most of the US based on that article
""We're at the beginning of a heat wave," Lyash said. "Other systems will falter because they're short on electricity. TVA will not."

I wasn’t the one that said most of the US. I just provided the link to TVA article ref the Southeast at max capacity.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

I wasn’t the one that said most of the US. I just provided the link to TVA article ref the Southeast at max capacity.

My confusion, I assumed you were answering the question I asked when you quoted it

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

We’re working on a battery end-of-life study for a client. I cannot say more than that and over time I have probably said too much on the subject already

As far as the often quoted $15-20k to replace a battery I can say that this is a mis-informed number (MBA-ese for “wrong” ).

GM’s Ultium battery system in particular is engineered with the capability to replace individual modules. It is even designed so that the new modules will have plug & play interaction with previously existing models in the battery pack. So repairing the battery can be just a function of replacing the specific modules that go bad. There are dozens of modules in each battery pack.

There is also a lot of work going on right now in the battery recycling and battery remanufacturing arenas. By the time EVs are here in high volume, availability of lower cost remanufactured battery packs for out of warranty replacement will be the norm. In the meantime, all EV manufacturers have to warranty the battery for 8 years / 100,000 mile minimum. Some warranty for 10 years.

This is good feedback. I fully expect the price to come down over time and I like the fact that they are modular.

Here is good article on the cost of Tesla Model 3 battery as part of an insurance claim.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/38915/...3-battery-pack

[CW3SF]

I have two issues with the whole EV push and it’s more to do with the delivery than it is with the end result.
One, I don’t like how it’s being shoved down our throats, with the the war on fossil fuels and the intentional jacking up of gas prices to force the issue. I think everyone should be able to make the free choice to drive whatever they want. If gas was still $2.75 a gallon and EV use was skyrocketing with people freely choosing it then kudos to all.
Two, the shortfall in power generation is coming. And wind/solar cannot make up the difference it’s less than 20% already. So that means that the shortfall HAS to be carried by nuclear, gas and coal. So think about that……we are going to burn more nuclear, gas and coal in order to charge more EVs and save the environment. Oh the irony, LOL.

[cooldawg]

Don’t live in Texas, but that might be the canary in the coal mine. It’s a filthy rich state wrt fossil fuel resources, yet the grid was too reliant on weak sauce renewables like solar and wind.

I’m sure states like NY and IL will expand with a common sense based ‘all of the above’ approach, right? If you believe that, I’ve got a bridge to sell. It’s partisan ideology 1st with the EPA, CDC, and sadly even the FBI.

The EU is yet another example. Their carbon free unicorn fart dreams are shattering real time due to restrictions in NG from Russia. Even a gradual shift from ICE to EV will require a large amount of additional capacity. If you believe long term, jump into an EV by all means. I don’t and even if I did, I would prefer a V8.

[90503]

Here's a fun Tesla/EV story. Looking to upgrade or mod your EV? Buyer beware. Even used is not out of their reach. Just a sample of what can happen without your approval or knowledge.

Big EV Brother is always watching....

https://futurism.com/tesla-range-reduce-remote

Buying a used Tesla comes with some inherent risks.

A major one is that you can't count on being able to access all of the features the car was originally sold with, in an unfortunate side effect of the increasingly internet-connected vehicles that Tesla itself pioneered.

In the latest example, a motorist who bought a used 2013 Model S is now being forced to pay $4,500 to unlock the full range of the vehicle, according to a now-viral Twitter thread by Jason Hughes, the founder of unofficial Tesla service center 057 Technology.

Here's how it went down, according to Hughes. The vehicle, which had been been sold twice before, originally came with a 60 kWh battery that was upgraded under warranty years later to a 90 kWh one by Tesla.

In other words, it was still technically a Model S 60, but with the battery and range of a Model S 90.

The latest owner then had the onboard computer upgraded at Tesla — and that's when the problems started.

"Later on, while the car is parked in his driveway, Tesla calls him to tell him that they found and fixed a configuration mistake with his car," Hughes wrote. "They remotely software locked the car to be a 60 again, despite having been a 90 for years."

"He now has [about] 80 miles less range," Hughes continued, which is the equivalent of losing a third of the vehicle's usable range "remotely with no warning."

"They basically robbed him and are demanding a ransom to get back what he had before," the self-described "head tinkerer" argued. "That's just wrong."

According to Hughes, the owner tried to reason with Tesla for a while "with no progress."

Hughes attempted to solve the issue himself, but didn't get far.

"There's hacky ways around this, but none are ideal," he tweeted. "Tesla won't help him at all."

It's far from the first time Tesla remotely disabled features in used vehicles. In 2020, for instance, a dealer found that both Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving Capabilities, roughly $8,000 in value at the time, were suddenly removed from a used 2017 Model S.

It's not good for the reputation of the company's customer service, and also raises serious questions about the resale, maintenance and long term value of its vehicles.

According to a recent survey by retail service tracking company Pied Piper, EV makers like Tesla and Rivian are falling behind other traditional automakers when it comes to customer satisfaction. Tesla came in at 21 out of 25 premium automotive brands represented in the survey.

Hughes is clearly interested in Teslas — he runs a garage for them, after all — but even he expressed mixed feelings about the range issue.

"I'm not a fanboy or hater," Hughes admitted. "I'm just realistic. They do something dumb, I point it out. Something awesome? Yeah, I note that too."

Futurism has reached out to Tesla for comment, but we're not holding our breath, as the company dissolved its PR department in 2020.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by CW3SF

I have two issues with the whole EV push and it’s more to do with the delivery than it is with the end result.
One, I don’t like how it’s being shoved down our throats, with the the war on fossil fuels and the intentional jacking up of gas prices to force the issue. I think everyone should be able to make the free choice to drive whatever they want. If gas was still $2.75 a gallon and EV use was skyrocketing with people freely choosing it then kudos to all.
….

No argument here. People should be able to buy and drive whatever they want. ICE vehicles will be available for several more decades, but there will be fewer choices. Which raises my questions to you…

Should car manufacturers have free choice to produce whatever they want?
Should car manufacturers be free to name their products whatever they want?