2024 Camaro?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by cooldawg

The dealers I’m in contact with imply GM is very eager to kill the Camaro. Since we’re discussing a sold order/ potential allocation vs. inventory, not much reason to bend the truth… Sad.

If Dodge sticks with 500hp or so ICE especially in a smaller platform, that’s where I’m headed. My HC challenger was fun and a great looking car- but BIG. That was really my only complaint.

If they’re going to call it quits after a short run for 23’, GM’s EV sedan will hopefully be a Chevelle or Malibu- and they’ll let Camaro die.

Tim Kuniskis has flat out said that ‘23 is the last year for a Hellcat engine. He’s head of Stellantis Performance, and Dodge CEO so he’d know.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...coming-in-2022

[Devstrike]

Maybe in the Challenger and Hellcats but according to Ram CEO its here to stay in the Ram TRX in its current form which it seems to implied the engine as well. Those TRX are selling like hotcakes it seems still.

EDIT sorry linked the wrong article here is the right one https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...or-ram-pickups

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Maybe in the Challenger and Hellcats but according to Ram CEO its here to stay in the Ram TRX in its current form which it seems to implied the engine as well. Those TRX are selling like hotcakes it seems still.

EDIT sorry linked the wrong article here is the right one https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...or-ram-pickups

I still can’t believe Dodge and GM are going all in on EV for their performance division stuff. When asked why EV? Dodge will say, performance made us do it. This is kind of shortsighted to me. We are talking about cars accelerating from 0-60mph in 3.0 second becoming commonplace. Let’s be real, you are not doing pulls like this all the time. My Tesla accelerated like that and it is cool at first but my word it is pretty violent and will make you nauseous. If I had my wife and kids in the car they would just complain.

The things is, what other performance will they offer other than no drama acceleration? In fact, unless Dodge can implement the type of tech in the Tesla Plaid or add a transmission then their EVs will be quicker to 60mph but slower during pulls above 60mph. A car needs to be fun to drive at any speed. I just don’t get it. If you were in the market for a Hellcat why would you be satisfied with a EV version? All the character of the car is lost. If you want a smooth quiet non-engaging vehicle you can just buy a Lexus with great reliability and resale value. I am still shaking my head and this is coming from someone who owns an EV already.

[cooldawg]

Looks like in-line six with twin turbo or supercharged Hemi V8. I was hoping for NA V8 but the IL six might be fun in a lighter platform.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/next...ger-hellcat-v8

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by cooldawg

Looks like in-line six with twin turbo or supercharged Hemi V8. I was hoping for NA V8 but the IL six might be fun in a lighter platform.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/next...ger-hellcat-v8

This is encouraging news. I wonder if GM will change course or extend the Camaro production a bit longer. We will have an S650 ICE Mustang and what appears to be a updated Dodge Challenger and Charger and over here at Team Camaro we get to look at some freaky Camaro EV sedan pictures.

[cooldawg]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

This is encouraging news. I wonder if GM will change course or extend the Camaro production a bit longer. We will have an S650 ICE Mustang and what appears to be a updated Dodge Challenger and Charger and over here at Team Camaro we get to look at some freaky Camaro EV sedan pictures.

I’m hoping they will, but one of the two GM dealers sent me a link to their FORD dealership… They clearly think GM is pulling the plug, soon.

The C8 is where GM and their dealers are making a killing. They don’t care. The feeling is mutual if the best they can do is a Camaro EV sedan.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

This is encouraging news. I wonder if GM will change course or extend the Camaro production a bit longer. We will have an S650 ICE Mustang and what appears to be a updated Dodge Challenger and Charger and over here at Team Camaro we get to look at some freaky Camaro EV sedan pictures.

I doubt GM will do anything they are not in the position Dodge is in. Unlike Chevy Dodge only consists of The Charger, Challenger and Durango which means they can't afford to really ignore the customers like Chevy does with the Camaro. Ram split from Dodge a decade ago so they don't have the capability to completely switch over yet so for now it works in the enthusiast favor. That being said they will try to ween their customers to electric by the next gen or later.

Outside of manufacturers Restoration and Machine shops etc are seeing an uptick in business lately so either way if the Customer wants ICE in a performance car he will get it whether it is from an assembly line or not. They will just keep the car and maintain upgrade it etc. while having an EV daily to go to work.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

For GM it is the Camaro and CT4/CT5 Blackwings. Corvette should really be its own brand by now with it own service centers. My biggest gripe is paying $160k+ for a Corvette Z06 and you have to bring it to the same dealership and service techs that work on a Chevy Spark.

It is nice to see some of the other brands catering to enthusiasts. Nissan Z, Supra, GR86/BRZ, hell they even brought back the Acura Integra, all available with a manual transmission, even the BMW Supra for 2023.

If the company is run by bean counters than they have no interest in catering to the $40-$60k enthusiast market that has low volume sales. GM will eventually offer an EV coupe or sedan at some point but who will really care? Is there really a whole new market out there for an EV sedan from Chevy? You can go buy a Tesla right now if that is what you want.

I should have been clearer.... mean in 2030 when EV's are being forecast to be 30% of the market, what would be the ICE vehicles being produced, would there still be enthusiast ICE vechicles?

[redcoats1976]

just saw a pic of the 2025 dodge EV...at least it looks like something i might want to be seen in and not some lame ass 4 door.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Maybe in the Challenger and Hellcats but according to Ram CEO its here to stay in the Ram TRX in its current form which it seems to implied the engine as well. Those TRX are selling like hotcakes it seems still.

EDIT sorry linked the wrong article here is the right one https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...or-ram-pickups

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I still can’t believe Dodge and GM are going all in on EV for their performance division stuff. When asked why EV? Dodge will say, performance made us do it. This is kind of shortsighted to me. We are talking about cars accelerating from 0-60mph in 3.0 second becoming commonplace. Let’s be real, you are not doing pulls like this all the time. My Tesla accelerated like that and it is cool at first but my word it is pretty violent and will make you nauseous. If I had my wife and kids in the car they would just complain.

The things is, what other performance will they offer other than no drama acceleration? In fact, unless Dodge can implement the type of tech in the Tesla Plaid or add a transmission then their EVs will be quicker to 60mph but slower during pulls above 60mph. A car needs to be fun to drive at any speed. I just don’t get it. If you were in the market for a Hellcat why would you be satisfied with a EV version? All the character of the car is lost. If you want a smooth quiet non-engaging vehicle you can just buy a Lexus with great reliability and resale value. I am still shaking my head and this is coming from someone who owns an EV already.

It will be interesting to see if and for how long TRX can keep the Hellcat engine or will it transition to the Hurricane. In theory, the Hurricane has been “available” for a while, but they simply didn’t fire the shot. Why? The Hemi is one of the lowest cost engines in the Stellantis portfolio, while the Hurricane is the most expensive. All versions of Hemi are built in Mexico on fully depreciated tooling. Cheap. The Hurricane is a new design that is nowhere near fully depreciated and it’s built in the US with union labor. Not cheap. Since the Hemi costs less to produce than even the 3.6L V6, every time somebody optioned up their Chargallenger to a 5.7L or 6.4L, Stellantis happily pocketed the cost savings, at least for the engine content.

The flip side of that is the Hemi products put Stellantis upside down in terms of CAFE, to the point where Stellantis was Tesla’s biggest customer for EV credits to balance their CAFE deficit, especially on the car side (car and truck have different CAFE targets). So Stellantis had to reach back into that pocket of profits and hand over a big chunk of it to Tesla to stay out of EPA jail. It could be that the introduction of Hurricane and demise of Hellcat are timed to reduce Stellantis reliance on Tesla EV credits.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Hops

I should have been clearer.... mean in 2030 when EV's are being forecast to be 30% of the market, what would be the ICE vehicles being produced, would there still be enthusiast ICE vechicles?

I hope so. I think if there is money to be made then somebody will build them. They may not be fire-breathing supercharged V8s but performance based hybrids may work. Think electric motor paired with a high revving inline 4 cylinder. The electric motor assist to make up for the low end torque but still have rev-happy combustion engine married to a manual transmission? Just spit balling here.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Hops

I should have been clearer.... mean in 2030 when EV's are being forecast to be 30% of the market, what would be the ICE vehicles being produced, would there still be enthusiast ICE vechicles?

Depends. How many cylinders you want (don’t say 8) and would you mind a bit of hybrid assist instead of a supercharger?

Realistically though, Corvette will likely be one of the last ICE vehicles GM makes. It’s iconic and profitable. What more can you ask. So it’ll probably have ICE versions (with V8) until the end of 2034. Mustang will still be around and will include hybrid variants. Question is, how long will the V8, with or without hybrid, be viable. Remember, Ford only has one car (Mustang) to carry the weight of their EPA CAFE requirements. If a V8 hybrid can’t fit within the regulations AND if it becomes too expensive for the average consumer, they could easily drop the V8. Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc are all transitioning to hybrids and/or EVs. Who am I leaving out?

[I don't want a mustang]

I don't really understand why transitioning to a 4 door Camaro makes sense. Why not use the Impala or other Chevy name on a 4 door, sport focused EV?

The rumor of a 4 door Camaro EV sounds like something a Camaro hater would spread or someone who is reacting to the Mach-E.

My own personal opinion is that the Camaro nameplate will sit dormant for a few years like pre-5th Gen years. Eventually we'll get a 2 door all electric that can support a convertible top.

My plans are to convert my ICE engine to electric whenever it makes sense to do so. I plan on driving my LT1 until the day I grow old and die, which might just be 6 months after these ****ers deliver it.

[redcoats1976]

off topic but my 5th gen camaro should be coming out of paint and body jail today after being pushed sideways at 60 mph for about 1/4 mile.needed a new 1/4 panel,door,and rear wheel and tire but i was not even scratched.thanks GM for building tham safe...i could have reached through the broken drivers window and touched the grill on that semi.