gm pushing for higher gas tax

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by Viral

Point is, once again, this has NOTHING to do with Obama or "government motors" or how Akerson came to be CEO. This is a rehash of the EXACT same lamentation that American Automotive CEOs have been making for decades. With the EXACT same backlash from knee-jerk forum readers every single time. Calm down people, this is the way the world operates. Welcome to it.

and thats all folks. But I already knew walking In this thread somone was going to blame obama and his evil liberal agenda to take your monies .

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by Russo

it's quite obvious that the guy is an idiot... he didnt even work to get to the position he's in, the government put him there... it would be like Iran back in the 60s when we put the Shah in power then expected them to do everything we told them...

and no, we should not raise the debt limit... our government defaults every time they print money..

good guy but bat ish crazy.

[GTAHVIT]

FWIW,

Don't forget the context of what he's saying.

He's saying it will be more effective and less inhibiting to the development of fuel efficient technology if we raised the gas tax, instead of enforcing cafe on the auto industry...

It's and either or situation for the manufacturers. Again I refer to my wood burning stove... CAFE says, "OK so we know there hasn't been any major break throughs in technology to get you where we want you to be. So we are going to make it so damn hard that you simply can't heat your house to the temperature you want.. you area only allowed 5 logs per day. Now, if you can figure out how to make the 5 logs burn to the temperature you want then good for you.... but that's your problem not ours."

Instead, I say we infuse the industry with more incentives to create new technologies that will actually work instead of rationing gas... which is really what Cafe is IMHO.

I'm not quite willing to let him off the hook though... CEO's need to be more careful about what they say... Of course it's going to be interpreted that GM wants to pass on the burden of CAFE to the consumer in the form of a tax so they don't have to abide by the cafe regs...

Which I don't think he really means but still. Unemployment up, salaries down, dollar down... Be careful what you say and when you say it...

[CamaroSkooter]

Write to your representatives and tell them to repeal the CAFE standards

[King Sun]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

FWIW,

Don't forget the context of what he's saying.

He's saying it will be more effective and less inhibiting to the development of fuel efficient technology if we raised the gas tax, instead of enforcing cafe on the auto industry...

It's and either or situation for the manufacturers. Again I refer to my wood burning stove... CAFE says, "OK so we know there hasn't been any major break throughs in technology to get you where we want you to be. So we are going to make it so damn hard that you simply can't heat your house to the temperature you want.. you area only allowed 5 logs per day. Now, if you can figure out how to make the 5 logs burn to the temperature you want then good for you.... but that's your problem not ours."

Instead, I say we infuse the industry with more incentives to create new technologies that will actually work instead of rationing gas... which is really what Cafe is IMHO.

I'm not quite willing to let him off the hook though... CEO's need to be more careful about what they say... Of course it's going to be interpreted that GM wants to pass on the burden of CAFE to the consumer in the form of a tax so they don't have to abide by the cafe regs...

Which I don't think he really means but still. Unemployment up, salaries down, dollar down... Be careful what you say and when you say it...

so what would be the solution? because I don't like the idea of having the CAFE standards but I feel like some of the standards their setting are way to high. Maybe they should work with the companies more?

[kbui]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

FWIW,
I'm not quite willing to let him off the hook though... CEO's need to be more careful about what they say... Of course it's going to be interpreted that GM wants to pass on the burden of CAFE to the consumer in the form of a tax so they don't have to abide by the cafe regs...

Which I don't think he really means but still. Unemployment up, salaries down, dollar down... Be careful what you say and when you say it...

I am with you on this one. Timing and what to say is extremely important. However, his comments can only be interpreted as passing the burden of CAFE to the consumers at this time.

I think if we allow the EPA/government framing the debate by giving us a couple of choices as VIRAL set a few threads up (CAFE or tax increase), we are already lost the debate. The discussion should be how much power are we giving the EPA/federal government to allow them to set these idiotic standards/regulations...Looking at the history of the feds/epa, they are always looking to do what is best for us. All they are asking is for us to shut the hell up and bend over.

With the government, incrementally making life more difficult for independent thinkers is their only aim. Socialism is where we are heading if not already there. We don't have to worry about anything or make any difficult decisions because THEY will always be there to take care of us.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by King Sun

so what would be the solution? because I don't like the idea of having the CAFE standards but I feel like some of the standards their setting are way to high. Maybe they should work with the companies more?

Again, this is just me talking... But I think you wipe the slate clean, (i feel like cafe is "punishment" for all the bad bad gas guzzling cars that the industry has so irresponsibly produced ) and essentially say. you will receive incremental tax brakes, (similar to the volt) for any MPG improvement over the first year of each model you produce. So, to me, the industry will be motivated by competition to get the first year MPG as high as possible. And then continue to be motivated to improve it by passing the savings on to customers in the form of (Volt like) tax breaks each time they raise MPG on a given brand...

Obviously there are a ton of holes in this idea... As no one would buy year one as they would expect the price to drop in year two... and on and on.... But I'm trying to just give an idea of what one approach might be.

Basically, I'm saying reward them for getting better, Not punish them for all the hard work they've done to get here... Our Gov should not be in the business of setting industry or market standards. If this countries consumers demand volts then guess, what... us muscle car guys are out in the cold.... But let the market dictate that... Not the Gov.

Originally Posted by kbui

I am with you on this one. Timing and what to say is extremely important. However, his comments can only be interpreted as passing the burden of CAFE to the consumers at this time.

I think if we allow the EPA/government framing the debate by giving us a couple of choices as VIRAL set a few threads up (CAFE or tax increase), we are already lost the debate. The discussion should be how much power are we giving the EPA/federal government to allow them to set these idiotic standards/regulations...Looking at the history of the feds/epa, they are always looking to do what is best for us. All they are asking is for us to shut the hell up and bend over.

With the government, incrementally making life more difficult for independent thinkers is their only aim. Socialism is where we are heading if not already there. We don't have to worry about anything or make any difficult decisions because THEY will always be there to take care of us.

Just remember taxes, cafe and any other regulatory expense will always fall on the consumer. What I think gets lost is, it is the Gov's fault that our cars are so expensive. They are raising the cost to build our cars with stupid regulations... the industry has no choice to pass that on to us. In that light The CEO's comments aren't quite so inflammatory. The benefit of higher gas tax is, we can decide if we want to pay the penalty for higher consumption vehicles or not.... that actually gives us back a little control.

But the press will never frame it that way....

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Write to your representatives and tell them to repeal the CAFE standards

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CamaroSkooter]

[kbui]

In principal, I agree with you two regarding writing your reps. In practical terms, I think we are too late. As more and more people living off all of these gov's programs, these voters will continue to vote their pockets by keeping their guys in office (because they are there to bring home the bacons). The only way to slow down this train wreck is term limits, drastically reduce the size/budget of the governments, (constitutional amendments) to reduce the power of these regulatory agencies....EPA being one of them.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by kbui

In principal, I agree with you two regarding writing your reps. In practical terms, I think we are too late. As more and more people living off all of these gov's programs, these voters will continue to vote their pockets by keeping their guys in office (because they are there to bring home the bacons). The only way to slow down this train wreck is term limits, drastically reduce the size/budget of the governments, (constitutional amendments) to reduce the power of these regulatory agencies....EPA being one of them.

Fair...

BUT...

we don't allow THAT conversation here...

[kbui]

Got it! I knew I was just about at the limit Just saw all of these responses skirting around the REAL PROBLEM and having these circular conversations. I have been doing work for both sides (auto companies as well as Federal Hway, NHTSA...) for the last 25 years, so I know what can be done. These regulations are what driving up the costs and killing our economy.

[Lou_Dorchen]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Write to your representatives and tell them to repeal the CAFE standards

This is the best solution out there. That, and actually doing research on candidates for Congress and the Presidency and actually voting. Every candidate has a website. Just log on to the candidates websites and see who is for more environmental regulation and who is against more regulation and vote accordingly.

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

He's saying it will be more effective and less inhibiting to the development of fuel efficient technology if we raised the gas tax, instead of enforcing cafe on the auto industry...

Why should we have to settle for either?

Why can't Government just get out of our business and let the consumers, and thus the free market, decide what cars we can drive?

[CamaroSkooter]

Because the government is smarter than we are /sarcasm

[Number 3]

Ok, sorry, have to tap back in here.

What most of you are missing is that CAFE is a hidden "tax".

It forces the OEMs to build a fleet of vehicles that get 62 mpg average. Now if you believe that in 10 years time that 20 kW batteries are somehow free or the internal combustion engine somehow becomes 2 times more efficient, then nothing happens.

BUUUUUUUT, here is the rub. Whether you want it or not, the OEMs WILL comply. Not because of bailouts or loans or any other reason you might want to think make sense, but simply to comply with the law that requires them to do so or go out of business.

And the reality is that in order to get a fleet of cars that gets 62 mpg the OEMs will have to do all kinds of silly things. How about your only choice is to buy a hybrid, even if you don't really want one? Today, even at $4 per gallon a lot of people will tell you that a hybrid will never pay for the added cost of the car. No payback for the CUSTOMER.

So CAFE will force you to pay thousands for technology that you don't want or aren't willing to pay for. Now if gas were $5 or $6 you might be more willing to buy such a vehicle and it's added technology.

CAFE is not just a silly number. It is driving the cost and complexity of your future vehicles through the roof.

So if the gas tax were higher and we used less fuel, you could argue that you wouldn't need to pay thousands more for your car due to excess technology.

So CAFE will cost you just about as much or more than any gas tax.

But since everyone thinks CAFE only impacts the OEM and not them no one complains. But shift that cost to a tax and holy hell breaks loose.