Firefighters watch home burn to ground... - Page 13

RubyCamaro · 10-08-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeepItGreasey

i thought that taxes paid for public services? why should anyone have to pay extra for any specific services? do you know how much money these fire fighters make? do you know how large their pensions are?

NOTE: not all fire fighters are exposed to 09/11/01 NYC type event.

Dude, catch a clue. We are talking about rural Tennessee! There is no state income tax. Townships in rural counties are very small. Many of them have no taxes other than property & wheel taxes, virtually no "city services". Some get most their revenue from traffic tickets (don't exceed the speed limit there!). Out in the counties - even less revenue, no services other than a very little upkeep on roads. There are No fire hydrants. Many places no water system at all. Many have no fire department at all or only vounteer departments. Many don't even have the option to pay a fee to get services from the next county like this guy did. They are just SOL if there is a fire. He was lucky to have that opportunity & should have taken advantage. And by the way, our firefighters do not get paid all that well. If yours do, good for them!!! They deserve it for putting their lives on the line for us.

Rogue Leader · 10-08-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubyCamaro

Dude, catch a clue. We are talking about rural Tennessee! There is no state income tax. Townships in rural counties are very small. Many of them have no taxes other than property & wheel taxes, virtually no "city services". Some get most their revenue from traffic tickets (don't exceed the speed limit there!). Out in the counties - even less revenue, no services other than a very little upkeep on roads. There are No fire hydrants. Many places no water system at all. Many have no fire department at all or only vounteer departments. Many don't even have the option to pay a fee to get services from the next county like this guy did. They are just SOL if there is a fire. He was lucky to have that opportunity & should have taken advantage. And by the way, our firefighters do not get paid all that well. If yours do, good for them!!! They deserve it for putting their lives on the line for us.

The guy very likely has NO clue, Firefighter is one of the most underpaid jobs especially outside of the major cities (and even there they don't make a whole ton). How would you like to top out at 40k a year to put your life on the line every day?

20Camaro11 · 10-08-2010, 10:42 PM

growing up in rural Pennsylvania, it seemed to me the only thing the VFD ever accomplished was saving the basement. After the fire burned out, the only thing left was a basement. Without public sewage (hydrants), the tankers would run out of water after 10 min and have to leave to find the nearest water source. If it was winter, the ponds and creeks would be frozen over, so you were SOL anyways. Adjacent towns and their VFD's would respond too, but now you looking at 30 min ETA's. Fires become fully involved in matter of minutes, so I understand the reluctance to pay for a service that often doesn't (CAN'T) do much to save your property. I am sure some homes were saved, and they were very good at putting out quick brush fires and such, but most house fires were significantly more damaging in the country than in the city. So is it worth $75 a year to have a VFD come save your basement? I think so, but lets not pretend its crazy to not pay for this coverage. Keep that homeowners policy current, and all is well.

Rogue Leader · 10-08-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20Camaro11

growing up in rural Pennsylvania, it seemed to me the only thing the VFD ever accomplished was saving the basement. After the fire burned out, the only thing left was a basement. Without public sewage (hydrants), the tankers would run out of water after 10 min and have to leave to find the nearest water source. If it was winter, the ponds and creeks would be frozen over, so you were SOL anyways. Adjacent towns and their VFD's would respond too, but now you looking at 30 min ETA's. Fires become fully involved in matter of minutes, so I understand the reluctance to pay for a service that often doesn't (CAN'T) do much to save your property. I am sure some homes were saved, and they were very good at putting out quick brush fires and such, but most house fires were significantly more damaging in the country than in the city. So is it worth $75 a year to have a VFD come save your basement? I think so, but lets not pretend its crazy to not pay for this coverage. Keep that homeowners policy current, and all is well.

Negative on that one. Homeowners policy contracts have a requirement for fire service of some sort, except for certain contracts specifically written (and charged more for) for areas where there can be no viable fire service. If you live in a place that has it, and they find you didn't pay the tax or fee and were denied service, your policy can and easily will be denied.

PQ · 10-08-2010, 11:49 PM

In case anyone missed it in the article, here is a direct quote from the homeowner............

Quote:

"I thought they'd come out and put it out, even if you hadn't paid your $75, but I was wrong," said Gene Cranick.

May as well have said, "I thought the people of South Fulton wanted to pay for my fire service."

I mean come on.......... The guy admitted to freeloading on the city.

Ours is in our water bill.

1 dollar per month. Much les than 3 dollars per month or so the homeowners would figure out to be. But we probably have 5 times the population county wise. If people were made to be more accountable personally across the board, there would be a lot less freeloading and more productivity.

Rogue Leader · 10-09-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PQ

In case anyone missed it in the article, here is a direct quote from the homeowner............

May as well have said, "I thought the people of South Fulton wanted to pay for my fire service."

I mean come on.......... The guy admitted to freeloading on the city.

Ours is in our water bill.

1 dollar per month. Much les than 3 dollars per month or so the homeowners would figure out to be. But we probably have 5 times the population county wise. If people were made to be more accountable personally across the board, there would be a lot less freeloading and more productivity.

And yet more validation:

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local...104544079.html

the gist:

They made a plan to protect everyone but the commissioners (voted in by taxpayers) didn't want to raise taxes for a service they were (in 1987) getting for free. So depts stopped responding and the service started. Their new plan sounds similarly hair-brained.

PQ · 10-09-2010, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

And yet more validation:

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local...104544079.html

the gist:

They made a plan to protect everyone but the commissioners (voted in by taxpayers) didn't want to raise taxes for a service they were (in 1987) getting for free. So depts stopped responding and the service started. Their new plan sounds similarly hair-brained.

So just as I suspected. They put it to a vote long ago, and it was voted down due to tax increases.

Then a good plan comes up, and they can't fund it so it sits for 23 years. They basically have no fire dept, because they refused ot pay for one. So the ones who voted YES, are probably the ones who pay their 75.00 while the ones who voted NO don't pay. And complain about it.

NOW, some of the cities won't go into the county AT ALL due to the cost because of non-payment and funding problems.

Hmmmmmm.............. Fool me once.......

KeepItGreasey · 10-09-2010, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Morals, Schmorals.
The guy didn't pay it is his fault and only his fault.

Let's change up the story a bit just hypothetically.

Let's say that while the firefighters were there protecting the neighbor's property, they decided to do the "moral" thing and put out the flames. While putting out the fire from the person who didn't pay the fee (let's keep in mind that they shouldn't be doing this) there is an explosion and 2 firefighters die because of it and others are injured. Then they have to get another truck to respond for backup, 3 ambulances have to be called in for medical support, and now the police have to get involved.

Who is wrong then?

they should have protected the neighbors' houses by showering the burning house with water.

KeepItGreasey · 10-09-2010, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubyCamaro

Dude, catch a clue. We are talking about rural Tennessee! There is no state income tax. Townships in rural counties are very small. Many of them have no taxes other than property & wheel taxes, virtually no "city services". Some get most their revenue from traffic tickets (don't exceed the speed limit there!). Out in the counties - even less revenue, no services other than a very little upkeep on roads. There are No fire hydrants. Many places no water system at all. Many have no fire department at all or only vounteer departments. Many don't even have the option to pay a fee to get services from the next county like this guy did. They are just SOL if there is a fire. He was lucky to have that opportunity & should have taken advantage. And by the way, our firefighters do not get paid all that well. If yours do, good for them!!! They deserve it for putting their lives on the line for us.

wow, i did not know that. and just think... people from all over like to point their fingers at California and laugh when they hear about all the "taxes" and "regulations" here.

but on another note... you know what to expect when you buy a house out in the middle of nowhere that depends on local water from a well on your land.

then again... if the firefighters are there and they have the means to put out the fire, why shouldn't they?

Ject · 10-09-2010, 01:49 AM

I have very little to say about this, But....

1. I believe they should have put the fire out then charged a substantial amount for responding to a non payer (such like not having health insurance and having to pay the full bill)

2. WTF has happened to helping our fellow man?? Seriously people have some issues these days that need to be fixed.

3. I pay ZERO (0) for fire protection, such a thing is not heard of around here and is a ridiculous concept. Should we all be paying for ability to use United Way's services i fear we might need its services at some point of our life?

In the end it comes down to, how good of a person are you? If someone is in need do you help or ignore?

The biggest debate of this for everyone is the fact that they were "there" and just "watched".. If they hadn't been just standing and watching, this probably would not be a big deal.

mickss · 10-09-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Morals, Schmorals.
The guy didn't pay it is his fault and only his fault.

Let's change up the story a bit just hypothetically.

Let's say that while the firefighters were there protecting the neighbor's property, they decided to do the "moral" thing and put out the flames. While putting out the fire from the person who didn't pay the fee (let's keep in mind that they shouldn't be doing this) there is an explosion and 2 firefighters die because of it and others are injured. Then they have to get another truck to respond for backup, 3 ambulances have to be called in for medical support, and now the police have to get involved.

Who is wrong then?

No one is wrong, according to your hypothetical the explosion would have happened with or without the payment with the same tragic results.

Rogue Leader · 10-09-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ject

I have very little to say about this, But....

1. I believe they should have put the fire out then charged a substantial amount for responding to a non payer (such like not having health insurance and having to pay the full bill)

2. WTF has happened to helping our fellow man?? Seriously people have some issues these days that need to be fixed.

3. I pay ZERO (0) for fire protection, such a thing is not heard of around here and is a ridiculous concept. Should we all be paying for ability to use United Way's services i fear we might need its services at some point of our life?

In the end it comes down to, how good of a person are you? If someone is in need do you help or ignore?

The biggest debate of this for everyone is the fact that they were "there" and just "watched".. If they hadn't been just standing and watching, this probably would not be a big deal.

They weren't there and just watching, they were operating on the property of the man's neighbor. They didn't just pull up in the trucks and start roasting s'mores.

Everyone pays somehow for fire protection, its part of your property taxes and if you look at your itemized tax bill, its in there. Fire protection is a service just like garbage pickup, sewers, etc. Some places you're taxed for it others you gotta pay for it.

v6sonoma · 10-09-2010, 03:04 PM

I know some of you feel that if they didn't pay then they got what they deserved but I feel that's exactly whats F'd up in the world today. Even in a third world country they would have pulled a bucket brigade together to help. It's about what's the right thing to do. It's just wrong.

About 7 years ago I was working for a big box retailer. We had a customer who set fire to a rack of clothing in order to distract us while she stole merchandise. I was coming around a corner when I heard an announcement there was a fire. As I came around the corner I saw the blaze that was almost to the ceiling. I instructed my people to quickly check the bathrooms and aisles and get all customers out of the building. I then quickly ran to get a fire extinguisher. I ended up going through 6 fire extinguishers to keep the fire at bay until the fire department showed up and was able to completely extinguish the fire. Had I not stayed the fire department said it would definitely have spread through the entire store and destroyed it. Over 300 people would have lost their jobs along with millions of dollars of merchandise that would have been destroyed. The correct thing to do would have been to leave the right thing was to stay. Later video evidence (that would have burned) showed who stated it and I helped testify at a grand jury hearing to put her away for a long time.

Around 2 years ago working at a different employer I was at the front of my store giving directions to an employee when a customer approached me to say a man was on the bridge near the store saying he was going to jump. I told my employee to call 911 and headed out to the bridge. When I approached the man he was holding a large bread knife and said he had cut a large gash across his wrist and was bleeding badly. He said he was a patient at the mental hospital and his insurance wouldn't pay anymore so they made him leave and he was going to jump. I was able to talk to him and try and get him to calm down. Eventually an officer showed up and I explained the situation to him. The officer was calm until I mentioned the part about the bread knife then he went into "officer mode"

and got loud and made the man very nervous. He really wasn't helping the situation. I was able to talk to the man and told him we would help him. All he needed to do was put down the knife. I told him to just drop it, just let go. He ended up dropping to the train tracks below. Then we asked him come away from the wall. He kind of stood still for a bit and then quickly tried to jump. The officer and I tackled him to the ground and held him there till a swarm of fire trucks and police cars came. I could have ignored the situation and maybe it would have been ok, or maybe the man would have attacked the officer and gotten shot. Who knows. What I do know is I did what was right in my heart and because of that he was still alive.

Doing what is right doesn't always make sense and often it isn't easy, but you do it because it's the right thing to do. Often times it goes unpaid. Maybe I'm just different then some of you. Just know that if your camaro was on fire I would come put it out.

PQ · 10-09-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

I know some of you feel that if they didn't pay then they got what they deserved but I feel that's exactly whats F'd up in the world today. Even in a third world country they would have pulled a bucket brigade together to help. It's about what's the right thing to do. It's just wrong.

I don't think anyones saying they got what they deserved. If you read it that way, at least from me, you are getting me all wrong.

Nobody 'Deserves' to have their home lost.

I'm saying, he can't complain that the dept. didn't help.

And as far as a 'Bucket Brigade' I'm sure there would have been. But to have the fire dept. put the fire out could cause more harm than good to the masses.

Like Spock said, "The good of the many outweigh the good of the one"

I think that works perfectly in this case.

10-09-2010, 01:49 AM	#178
Ject aka Patrick Drives: '10 Camaro 2SS '04 Silverado Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Derby Kansas Posts: 3,072	I have very little to say about this, But.... 1. I believe they should have put the fire out then charged a substantial amount for responding to a non payer (such like not having health insurance and having to pay the full bill) 2. WTF has happened to helping our fellow man?? Seriously people have some issues these days that need to be fixed. 3. I pay ZERO (0) for fire protection, such a thing is not heard of around here and is a ridiculous concept. Should we all be paying for ability to use United Way's services i fear we might need its services at some point of our life? In the end it comes down to, how good of a person are you? If someone is in need do you help or ignore? The biggest debate of this for everyone is the fact that they were "there" and just "watched".. If they hadn't been just standing and watching, this probably would not be a big deal. __________________ Current Modifications: Your average Bolt-ons & Suspension Upgrades GForce Engineering: 9" Rear End, Strange Pro Iron Case w/Moser Nodular 3.70:1 Detroit locker, 3.5" Solid Drive Shaft

10-09-2010, 03:04 PM	#181
v6sonoma Drives: 2010 SS RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Providence, RI Posts: 8,108 View My Garage	I know some of you feel that if they didn't pay then they got what they deserved but I feel that's exactly whats F'd up in the world today. Even in a third world country they would have pulled a bucket brigade together to help. It's about what's the right thing to do. It's just wrong. About 7 years ago I was working for a big box retailer. We had a customer who set fire to a rack of clothing in order to distract us while she stole merchandise. I was coming around a corner when I heard an announcement there was a fire. As I came around the corner I saw the blaze that was almost to the ceiling. I instructed my people to quickly check the bathrooms and aisles and get all customers out of the building. I then quickly ran to get a fire extinguisher. I ended up going through 6 fire extinguishers to keep the fire at bay until the fire department showed up and was able to completely extinguish the fire. Had I not stayed the fire department said it would definitely have spread through the entire store and destroyed it. Over 300 people would have lost their jobs along with millions of dollars of merchandise that would have been destroyed. The correct thing to do would have been to leave the right thing was to stay. Later video evidence (that would have burned) showed who stated it and I helped testify at a grand jury hearing to put her away for a long time. Around 2 years ago working at a different employer I was at the front of my store giving directions to an employee when a customer approached me to say a man was on the bridge near the store saying he was going to jump. I told my employee to call 911 and headed out to the bridge. When I approached the man he was holding a large bread knife and said he had cut a large gash across his wrist and was bleeding badly. He said he was a patient at the mental hospital and his insurance wouldn't pay anymore so they made him leave and he was going to jump. I was able to talk to him and try and get him to calm down. Eventually an officer showed up and I explained the situation to him. The officer was calm until I mentioned the part about the bread knife then he went into "officer mode" and got loud and made the man very nervous. He really wasn't helping the situation. I was able to talk to the man and told him we would help him. All he needed to do was put down the knife. I told him to just drop it, just let go. He ended up dropping to the train tracks below. Then we asked him come away from the wall. He kind of stood still for a bit and then quickly tried to jump. The officer and I tackled him to the ground and held him there till a swarm of fire trucks and police cars came. I could have ignored the situation and maybe it would have been ok, or maybe the man would have attacked the officer and gotten shot. Who knows. What I do know is I did what was right in my heart and because of that he was still alive. Doing what is right doesn't always make sense and often it isn't easy, but you do it because it's the right thing to do. Often times it goes unpaid. Maybe I'm just different then some of you. Just know that if your camaro was on fire I would come put it out. __________________ Mods: BBK Intake, BBK LT's and High Flow Cats, Corsa Cat-back exhaust, Hurst short throw shifter, SLP skip-shift eliminator. 7/1/09 Placed order for IOM/IO int/ SS/RS 6M 9/26/09 Took delivery!

10-08-2010, 10:42 PM	#171
20Camaro11 Drives: SS Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: not here Posts: 655	growing up in rural Pennsylvania, it seemed to me the only thing the VFD ever accomplished was saving the basement. After the fire burned out, the only thing left was a basement. Without public sewage (hydrants), the tankers would run out of water after 10 min and have to leave to find the nearest water source. If it was winter, the ponds and creeks would be frozen over, so you were SOL anyways. Adjacent towns and their VFD's would respond too, but now you looking at 30 min ETA's. Fires become fully involved in matter of minutes, so I understand the reluctance to pay for a service that often doesn't (CAN'T) do much to save your property. I am sure some homes were saved, and they were very good at putting out quick brush fires and such, but most house fires were significantly more damaging in the country than in the city. So is it worth $75 a year to have a VFD come save your basement? I think so, but lets not pretend its crazy to not pay for this coverage. Keep that homeowners policy current, and all is well.