2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by JimmyDeanSausage

Why on earth would you buy a 12 AND a 13 Boss?

Collect the whole set! Always loved the '69 Boss in blue (yeah, it was lighter) with the white stripes and the '70 in School Bus Yellow with the hockey stick graphics. Already have an old Mustang, a '65, so what better excuse to by both of the new ones. It's not like I need either. Of course I refuse to pay full whack on the second one so I'll wait...

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

There are plenty of 5.4s running more boost than 14psi without problems. Water/meth will probably be great with a tune. There shouldn't be any trouble making more power, but I think the gt500 would be better served with a set of tires than power mods. With the trap speeds that seem to be possible, 10 sec passes are not at all out of the question with just a set of tires. These cars with just a beefy set of treads are going to be downright nasty at the track

In discussing why they didn't go with direct injection on this car they said the didn't need anymore power. Any mods on this car should go into aero, suspension and tires I would think.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by motorhead

The cost of the one I have ordered is only $615 dollars more than the ZL1 I had on order.

Cost isn't that much different unless you add the track pack which about 95% of owners will never use, add the glass roof which makes no sense, add the Recaro seats which isn't offered in the ZL1, add the Nav which wasn't offered in the 2012 ZL1 (I'm sure there will be a cost adjustment on the 2013 for that adder),add the sub woofer(Which who cares about a radio in a 662HP car. I want to hear those ponies.)

I ordered the SVT package ,but once again most people will have no need for it. Without it, it would make the GT500 less than the ZL1 by a good bit when you consider the Gas Guzzler tax and higher destination charge.


The cost argument isn't an argument.

Like I've said countless times in these threads, I believe the ZL1 is the all around better car for the everyday motorhead ,and I really have no comment on the ring times of either car because I don't believe that to be anything other than a smoke screen used for marketing purposes by the car companies.

All other things being subjective like looks and ride quality I do think Ford built a better performing car stock for stock in that paticular market. However If you are going to compare the money between them you have to be fair. To get the same standard options the Zl1 has you have to add the SVT PP and track pack. That gets the 2 cars as close as possible equipment wise. The ZL1 is 55K and the GT500 is $61,500. Stock for stock and even stock with wheel/tire vs stock with wheel/tire I think there is no question the GT500 is the clear winner and its not just a little like some make it out to be its alot. I think the standard trans ZL1 vs the GT500 both being bone stock but with a wheel/tire is going to be a difference of .8 seconds in the 1/4 mile or more. If you dont think this is alot you need to go drag racing more. However if you plan to mod your car the ZL1 starts to look alot better. With the $6,500 difference your going to be able to gain that .8 seconds back maybe more. Another thing the ZL1 has going for it is the auto option wich is a $1,200 upgrade I believe. Now there is a difference of a little more than 5k. With 5k you could have pulley, tune, LT headers and a converter and walk all over a stock GT500 at the strip. Plus the auto's performance gap will widen further and further as the 2 cars get further into mods and ET. Just my $.02 cents.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Oh god. I'm having, "the 5.0 is maxed from the factory" flashbacks.

LOLOL, that was my first thought too!

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

All other things being subjective like looks and ride quality I do think Ford built a better performing car stock for stock in that paticular market. However If you are going to compare the money between them you have to be fair. To get the same standard options the Zl1 has you have to add the SVT PP and track pack. That gets the 2 cars as close as possible equipment wise. The ZL1 is 55K and the GT500 is $61,500. Stock for stock and even stock with wheel/tire vs stock with wheel/tire I think there is no question the GT500 is the clear winner and its not just a little like some make it out to be its alot. I think the standard trans ZL1 vs the GT500 both being bone stock but with a wheel/tire is going to be a difference of .8 seconds in the 1/4 mile or more. If you dont think this is alot you need to go drag racing more. However if you plan to mod your car the ZL1 starts to look alot better. With the $6,500 difference your going to be able to gain that .8 seconds back maybe more. Another thing the ZL1 has going for it is the auto option wich is a $1,200 upgrade I believe. Now there is a difference of a little more than 5k. With 5k you could have pulley, tune, LT headers and a converter and walk all over a stock GT500 at the strip. Plus the auto's performance gap will widen further and further as the 2 cars get further into mods and ET. Just my $.02 cents.

I really don't understand why people always want to enter mods into these topics. Modding it just about throwing money at it ,and both cars can be modded with enough money. For me I could car less about modding either car. I have modded cars and they are old cars. You know why? Because they are a lot easier to mod for HP, for a lot less money when you consider the initial cost.

And as far as the track pack, I can't understand why everyone wants to add this to the 500 for a direct comparison. Ford themselves even said that it is only needed for extreme track use which only about 3% GT500 owners will do. To me (being a drag racer) that package is useless and just adds weight. That's why I only have a $615 dollar increase to move to a GT500.

Like I said before and it keeps getting sided step. The motor in the GT500 is a hand built nearly race prepped work of art designed solely for the GT500 and to that there is no comparison. 662HP is just a starting point for that motor according to Ford And Shelby. It's built strong enough to take much more and to me that's worth the extra 5 grand; if that's the number every wants to use even though I know for a fact it's much less.

What's really funny here anyway is that we are talking about cars that most people buy as toys, don't really need and cost 55 to 65 grand. I doubt that too many people that can truly afford them will care about an extra 5 grand to get what they want. I know I don't. If I had worry about that, then I really shouldn't be buying because I really can't afford it.

I'm more interested in the performance of the two beastly cars than thier price tags.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

All other things being subjective like looks and ride quality I do think Ford built a better performing car stock for stock in that paticular market. However If you are going to compare the money between them you have to be fair. To get the same standard options the Zl1 has you have to add the SVT PP and track pack. That gets the 2 cars as close as possible equipment wise. The ZL1 is 55K and the GT500 is $61,500. Stock for stock and even stock with wheel/tire vs stock with wheel/tire I think there is no question the GT500 is the clear winner and its not just a little like some make it out to be its alot. I think the standard trans ZL1 vs the GT500 both being bone stock but with a wheel/tire is going to be a difference of .8 seconds in the 1/4 mile or more. If you dont think this is alot you need to go drag racing more. However if you plan to mod your car the ZL1 starts to look alot better. With the $6,500 difference your going to be able to gain that .8 seconds back maybe more. Another thing the ZL1 has going for it is the auto option wich is a $1,200 upgrade I believe. Now there is a difference of a little more than 5k. With 5k you could have pulley, tune, LT headers and a converter and walk all over a stock GT500 at the strip. Plus the auto's performance gap will widen further and further as the 2 cars get further into mods and ET. Just my $.02 cents.

To clarify on your numbers a bit....does the $55k including the required $1300 GG tax? And if you add the $1200 auto, your GG tax then doubles to $2600, thus your $5k advantage is down to $2.4k.

Of course, as a drag racer, I don't want ANY of the extras on either car, meaning I'd pay base for either the GT500 or the ZL1. But of course, to each their own.

[69bossnine]

FWIW, my 2.3L TVS on my 2011 5.4L GT500 makes 17 lbs of boost, it's my daily driver, it's been absolutely trouble-free, and dyno'd at 660 rwhp.

It is true that there are more gains available with the 5.4, because stock they are so under-utilized. BUT, there's certainly another few pounds of reliable boost available in the 5.8, along with a tune and details, 700 rwhp should be EASILY ATTAINABLE for a total investment of around $1,000 in doo-dads and tune.

Not to mention it's tugging around 300 lbs less flab.

There's just no "catching up" to that car with the ZL1 unless you pull out your check-book, wad up your warranty, change cam, headers, exhaust, pulley, maybe blower too, tune, etc.etc...

I'm sure you can get there, but with a louder lopey-er more-cantankerous beast, which is fun for weekend-dorking-around, but stinks for day-in-day-out.

Just being real.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

If I was interested in 1/4 mile performance I would have continued to modify my SS and for a lot less money put a stock ZL1 or 2013 Shelby to shame. For me, it's really not a measure that I put much stock in. It is relatively easy to obtain straight line perfromance. I think you would agree with this. That is really my point. The 2013 Shelby deserve some credit for what should be better straight line performance. It's a pretty simple power to weight ratio. For me, it does not matter. It doesn't make me regret my purchase one bit.

same thing can be said about a 2000 Honda civic. it can be made to put us all to shame.


thats a worthless argument vs. a stock car.


if a person can afford a zl1/gt500, they can afford to mod it where you can NEVER match them short of buying a forged short block.


my personal favorite car in the UNIVERSE is a LSA cadillac. what this discussion has proved to me, is a manufacturer can take the HP war as far as they want. the new 5.8 Ford has immense expansion potential.


i stay with cadillac, because it has Plenty of performance, and something NO Ford/Lincoln can match.... style, technology, overall performance, and comfort.

they can make a gt500 that runs 250mph and has 1200hp, and it can never be a Cadillac.


same for your ZL1, a gt500 can never be what your car is.

[69bossnine]

And one other comment... This money issue... What a bunch of cheap-ass tightwads you guys are, if you're pondering blowing $50K+++ on EITHER a fast-damn-Camaro OR fast-damn-Mustang, and you're griping over $5K-7K difference (assuming you max the options on the Mustang). Really???

In the grand scheme of things, who the hell cares???

How did anyone ever justify paying for the ORIGINAL 1969 ZL1?? Go ahead, Google, and find out how much that sucker cost new... The damn engine option cost almost twice as much as the stinking car. For the money of a ZL1, you could've bought a fully-loaded Cobra Jet Mach 1, and built it to run 9's..

Those 1969 ZL1 guys must've been real idiots...

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by jimbone

From the Jalopnik review of the GT500 at Road Atlanta:
http://jalopnik.com/5911657/first-dr...d-shelby-gt500



During Ford's market research, they determined that approximately 93% of GT500 buyers do nothing but cruise around town in these cars. The remaining 7% will take it to the drag strip. "much less" than 7% do any other type of racing, such as taking it to an auto cross track. This is about 1-3% of buyers.

What I want to know is:

Did Chevy's market research indicate the same #'s or did they determine that their prospective buyers would take this car to track racing events other than drag racing far more than the 1-3% the GT500 team determined? 3%(generous) of the ~5000 they sell every year is 150 cars.

I think the answer is that 90%+ of buyers for both cars will do the same thing: just drive them to work and around town on nice days.

With that said, Ford is letting you choose your performance level rather than forcing a buyer to have something they'll never use. In this case, "coolers".

Ford will sell you a $3495 shock/spring/wheel package. They will also sell you a $2995 "cooler" track package. Neither package will help you on the drag strip, where the market researched proved is the only place real life buyers do any type of competitive racing. These prices are also absurdly overpriced and will make the 50 year old overweight career middle manager buyer think twice before checking every box on the order form.

"Do I really need a differential cooler? I'll never race this thing, just forget about it."

With all this said, I believe the ZL1 should have went the same route and made the fancy suspension and coolers optional, allowing for a lower real world price. I think the take rate for these options would be low as well.

I also think the base $54,995 GT500 will beat a base $56,295 2012 ZL1 at the drag strip and on a road course. The 2 options you think are mandatory on the GT500 will only widen the performance gap between the 2 cars.

your conclusion is excellent. is all of that stuff needed? not really. a base ZL1 would rock for those who want it.

[69bossnine]

Originally Posted by jimbone

I also think the base $54,995 GT500 will beat a base $56,295 2012 ZL1 at the drag strip and on a road course. The 2 options you think are mandatory on the GT500 will only widen the performance gap between the 2 cars.

I made the same point in another thread. The Base GT500 will KILL the base ZL1 on the drag strip, and all of the expensive track options are pure road-course gear that just adds weight.

Quit embarrassing yourself with the cheap five and dime talk.

[Doubleblank]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

I originally ventured over here to find out more about the ZL1 as I considered my next car purchase. It initially seemed impressive, but the cost, narrow gains over the Boss and it's blown vulnerability made me hesitant. Then the Shelby comes out punching. Fastest car, no doubt with its 200 MPH bragging rights. But even though it suffers no gas guzzling tax its thirst for fuel is a bit off-putting. And in spite of its improved cooling I'm not so sure its blower wouldn't hinder the car just like the ZL1. At the end of the day both these cars are about, and deliver on bragging rights. I'll be looking for a '13 Boss to compliment my '12 after all. Performance, fun, value and a driving experience that's simply exciting all the time. Kind folks here told me to be happy with my ride. And I am. Boss 302 takes the podium IMHO, the blown oval and bow tie boys can fight among themselves. In off to the track in the big boys toy.

Come down to Houston and I'll show you how the Boss can really run when set up for the track....Boss302R. And I'll bring my SS set up for the track for comparitive purposes. I can probably get my hands on one of the Camaros (sold but in Dallas) that we raced and won with in World Challenge.

All the posters dismissing the track performance as unimportant compared to ET's are being way too one dimensional. People care about how cars handle and how fast they go around the road course. I could care less about 1/4 mile ET's. I don't run any stoplight races. I want a car to go fast during right hand turns/left hand turns/controlled braking/proper handling when things get pushed to the edge, etc. If you want to be king of the street and beat all those grandparents running stock corvettes in roll-ons, then do a HP grab and get the GT500.

PS I'm betting the GT500 will do pretty good at the track, with or without the track apps......untill the heat sinks in.

[Betiwin]

It seems most love to quote the 54k price without the GG Tax, and as others have said the auto closes the cap to a little over 2000. If you opt for the CF insert next year and suede shifter/wheel it's almost a wash. I'm sure the track pack is more need for that hard-core track car. A weekend warrior who takes his car for a lap or two I'm sure will be fine. Most will never track their car for 15 laps and I assume most don't get that. I'd assume most will get the recaro's and PP and nav, (which ZL1 gets in 1 months and a price increase) so watch these cars be about $1500 apart.

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by jimbone

I think the automatic transmission option is one of the few objective pluses about the ZL1, although the $2485 price is a deterrent. Many members of the target audience for this car are older and have no want to operate a clutch, although it's usually heresy and a point of ridicule to mention this on an online message board.

The older generation will shine and store the car while the younger generation will not have it within a two year period.