2015 Mustang to gain 200-300 pounds?

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by big hammer

isn't the alpha already lighter than that?

The Alpha scales well, especially on the smaller end which is why an ATS based on the Sigma or Zeta platform was never possible. IF the next Camaro is closer to the ATS in size, then 200lb weight loss is possible. We will know more when the ATS V6 coupe debut's

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...news/140119924

IF however the Camaro maintains some size there may be negligible weight change. The SS sedan (Zeta) and CTS sedan (Alpha) are very similar in size and weigh the same (V8 vs TT V6).

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The Alpha scales well, especially on the smaller end which is why an ATS based on the Sigma or Zeta platform was never possible. IF the next Camaro is closer to the ATS in size, then 200lb weight loss is possible. We will know more when the ATS V6 coupe debut's

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...news/140119924

IF however the Camaro maintains some size there may be negligible weight change. The SS sedan (Zeta) and CTS sedan (Alpha) are very similar in size and weigh the same (V8 vs TT V6).

Lots of people like to say they think the ATS is a small car...too small. But I disagree. Looking at dimensions vs the current Camaro, its not much smaller at all.

I see an ATS on the road every now and then and they look like a good size to me. I mean for crying out loud, if they can make it a four door car, then its big enough to be a damn Camaro! Just lengthen the hood a bit, decrease rear seat room a bit, give it longer doors for a coupe and your done.

I can see why the Mustang went up in weight a bit....the prior car is riding on an old chassis, and didn't have IRS. Now that the chassis has been brought up to new standards, with better safety, and IRS, the fact that it gained some weight while staying the same size is perfectly acceptable in my mind, and it still weighs a good amount less than the current Camaro.

The current Camaro already has IRS, and was a safer, more rigid/modern platform (Zeta). There is absolutely no reason in my mind that that the next gen Camaro shouldn't lose some weight. I would expect at minimum, 100 lbs, but I think even 200 lbs is totally realistic and is closer to where it will end up. Going much more than that might be pushing it.

Would be a huge fail if it didn't lose weight. In the end, I'd guess it to be very similar where the Mustang is at now, if not a tad under.

[camaro-dreamer]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The Alpha scales well, especially on the smaller end which is why an ATS based on the Sigma or Zeta platform was never possible. IF the next Camaro is closer to the ATS in size, then 200lb weight loss is possible. We will know more when the ATS V6 coupe debut's

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...news/140119924

IF however the Camaro maintains some size there may be negligible weight change. The SS sedan (Zeta) and CTS sedan (Alpha) are very similar in size and weigh the same (V8 vs TT V6).

This is probably true. Take the ATS V6 coupe weight, subtract weight of some luxury features, add in additional structural support for v8, add in the difference in weight of an LFX and an LT1 (about 120 lbs), and you will most likely have something pretty close to a 6th gen weight.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by khell86

He's just pointing out that with the new US curb weight standards, comparing cars will now be a bit difficult if going off of the manufacturers weights. These dont necessarily represent base weights as we've been used to in the pass.

He was on record over there stating the '15 Base GT would Curb @ 3418 or so.

3418???????????
: pound::p ound:

And now he's trying to justify his asinine, insane ideas however he can. Besides that, he's "protected" over there. Dissent with his opinion is censored off the site. He's there strictly as a post whore to blow up their posting numbers.

As Mitchell rightly pointed out (and I paraphrase), he don't know sickem 'bout nuthin'...

"DR. DYNAMICS", indeed...

[khell86]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

He was on record over there stating the '15 Base GT would Curb @ 3418 or so.

3418???????????
: pound::p ound:

And now he's trying to justify his asinine, insane ideas however he can. Besides that, he's "protected" over there. Dissent with his opinion is censored off the site. He's there strictly as a post whore to blow up their posting numbers.

As Mitchell rightly pointed out (and I paraphrase), he don't know sickem 'bout nuthin'...

"DR. DYNAMICS", indeed...

Technically we don't know what a Base GT weights. Take the 3700 lbs, subtract the heated and cooled seats, the extra speakers, bigger wheels, bigger breaks and other things now standard on the Premium model. It wont be 3400 lbs but I could still see it coming in around 3550-3600 lbs.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by khell86

Technically we don't know what a Base GT weights. Take the 3700 lbs, subtract the heated and cooled seats, the extra speakers, bigger wheels, bigger breaks and other things now standard on the Premium model. It wont be 3400 lbs but I could still see it coming in around 3550-3600 lbs.

The content of the vehicle was known. Yet he persisted with his delusional and incessant nonsense. Even if you can get one down to 3600 (minus spare/jack/cupful of gas/sitting on jackstands), that's STILL not...

3418

...is it?
Pericak started the "gonna lose a BUNCH of weight" TALL tale, never corrected it, and now, after the Steeda sting, weight-gate has the Ford faithful HAPPY that it only GAINED 90 pounds.

What a joke. Ask Pericak where he got HIS slide rule...

BTW, heated/cooled front seats add less than 20 lb., all by themselves. The factory-installed Recaros ALSO have side airbags, so the seats themselves are a virtual draw in weight. Where the savings come in is NO power adjuster and NO perforated leather. Those two MAY save another 20 lbs. But you guys eat up his numbers like they're gospel. Ask Mitchell for some REAL answers...

[archtaan]

Originally Posted by khell86

Technically we don't know what a Base GT weights. Take the 3700 lbs, subtract the heated and cooled seats, the extra speakers, bigger wheels, bigger breaks and other things now standard on the Premium model. It wont be 3400 lbs but I could still see it coming in around 3550-3600 lbs.

The 3704 is the base GT manual weight. The chart is listed as (base curb weight)

The premium will be over 3800#'s. Closer to #3900 fully loaded with a glass roof.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by khell86

Technically we don't know what a Base GT weights. Take the 3700 lbs, subtract the heated and cooled seats, the extra speakers, bigger wheels, bigger breaks and other things now standard on the Premium model. It wont be 3400 lbs but I could still see it coming in around 3550-3600 lbs.

Looks like some people are still in denial. Base 2013-2014 GT's weigh around 3600lbs and that's with spare equipment. With the new car the spare equipment is optional. The car is pretty much the same size. It did not get a aluminum frame. It added IRS. It added safety equipment. It added creature comforts. It added bigger brakes. It added a beefed up suspension. How in the world does anyone actually believe that it would lose weight despite all the equipment that it added standard with a starting MSRP of $33k? Some of you guys need a reality check.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Lots of people like to say they think the ATS is a small car...too small. But I disagree. Looking at dimensions vs the current Camaro, its not much smaller at all.

I see an ATS on the road every now and then and they look like a good size to me. I mean for crying out loud, if they can make it a four door car, then its big enough to be a damn Camaro! Just lengthen the hood a bit, decrease rear seat room a bit, give it longer doors for a coupe and your done.

I can see why the Mustang went up in weight a bit....the prior car is riding on an old chassis, and didn't have IRS. Now that the chassis has been brought up to new standards, with better safety, and IRS, the fact that it gained some weight while staying the same size is perfectly acceptable in my mind, and it still weighs a good amount less than the current Camaro.

The current Camaro already has IRS, and was a safer, more rigid/modern platform (Zeta). There is absolutely no reason in my mind that that the next gen Camaro shouldn't lose some weight. I would expect at minimum, 100 lbs, but I think even 200 lbs is totally realistic and is closer to where it will end up. Going much more than that might be pushing it.

Would be a huge fail if it didn't lose weight. In the end, I'd guess it to be very similar where the Mustang is at now, if not a tad under.

The Cadillac ATS is about the same size as a Chevy Cruze. It is verrrry small. I now have an SS in the garage and it dwarfs the little thing. Even the Audi S4 was visibly larger than the ATS.

Had a CTS loaner home over night last week. It also makes the ATS look small.

Get in one and drive it. It is a wonderful car. But it is a small car.

Can't compare wheel base on a FWD vs RWD car due to the front overhang, but width, the ATS is about 1/2 wider than the Cruze. The CTS is a full inch wider than the ATS. That doesn't seem like much, but it is a huge difference.

I know where your heart is KMPrenger but realistically you don't have a V8 to compare to. The closest you have is a CTS TT V6.

A key comparator will be when we see weights for the ATS coupe. Up or down to the sedan. That will help when we see if there is a weight saving by eliminating the rear doors vs. the structure required in a coupe for side impact. Also have to keep in mind that if you look at the CTS as a comparator for weight, it has aluminum doors that the ATS doesn't. That is easily 100 pounds. It is possible but not likely a future Camaro would have aluminum doors. Just too expensive.

[Bhobbs]

I don't think getting the weight down to the base GT is as critical for the SS. The Camaro and Mustang will probably have similar HP numbers but the Camaro will have a substantial torque advantage. With the Mustang gaining weight and IRS with bigger wheels and brakes, it will lose most of its straight line advantage.

I think they will be close in weight. No way is the Camaro going to be 300 lbs heavier than the Mustang which was its only real advantage.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The Cadillac ATS is about the same size as a Chevy Cruze. It is verrrry small. I now have an SS in the garage and it dwarfs the little thing. Even the Audi S4 was visibly larger than the ATS.

Had a CTS loaner home over night last week. It also makes the ATS look small.

Get in one and drive it. It is a wonderful car. But it is a small car.

Can't compare wheel base on a FWD vs RWD car due to the front overhang, but width, the ATS is about 1/2 wider than the Cruze. The CTS is a full inch wider than the ATS. That doesn't seem like much, but it is a huge difference.

I know where your heart is KMPrenger but realistically you don't have a V8 to compare to. The closest you have is a CTS TT V6.

A key comparator will be when we see weights for the ATS coupe. Up or down to the sedan. That will help when we see if there is a weight saving by eliminating the rear doors vs. the structure required in a coupe for side impact. Also have to keep in mind that if you look at the CTS as a comparator for weight, it has aluminum doors that the ATS doesn't. That is easily 100 pounds. It is possible but not likely a future Camaro would have aluminum doors. Just too expensive.

Well here you come with all your logic and stuff breaking my heart. lol. kidding.

Well, I guess I'll just say that I have faith. Alpha was made to be a lighter weight, scalable, stiff and high performance chassis. 6th gen Camaro may not end up being ATS sized, but then again I don't see why it needs to be CTS sized. The 5th gen is plenty big already. I love the look of the Challenger, but jeebus when I see one in person it just looks huge. Can't see Chevrolet going in that direction. Camaro may not end up matching or beating the 15' GT's 3,700ish + lb weight, but I have faith it will be in the ball park.

Rumors say we may find out in 6 months or so.

[Number 3]

My guess is NAIAS in 2015. If it is to be a 2016 with a late 2015 SOP the that makes sense. But so far no camouflaged cars running aroun and that is a year and a half. We'll see.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I don't think getting the weight down to the base GT is as critical for the SS. The Camaro and Mustang will probably have similar HP numbers but the Camaro will have a substantial torque advantage. With the Mustang gaining weight and IRS with bigger wheels and brakes, it will lose most of its straight line advantage.

I think they will be close in weight. No way is the Camaro going to be 300 lbs heavier than the Mustang which was its only real advantage.

While it's true the Camaro at 3750-3800lbs would have no problem being about equal in performance to the Mustang it would still be overweight, by a lot. Bottom line is that it has a weight problem and weight affects EVERYTHING. Acceleration, braking, handling, mpg and even overall part durability/longevity is affected by weight. I could care less if the car had equal performance to the Mustang. It needs to have much better performance than the Mustang, especially considering that the price will be more than a Mustang. I'm not sure if others feel the same way but I for one am not trading up unless the 6th gen SS comes in at less than 3750lbs.

[big hammer]

6th gen needs to be 3600 or less.