Not Good, GM wants another 16 or is it 9 Billion to Survive.

[RT21]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

For someone that was so down you would think that you learned something from that. Apparantly NOT! I hope I never feel like you. The strong survive crap. You think you are the only one who has busted ass, keep feeding yourself that, so you can sleep at night!

Quoted by Rmyers
You should be careful before you assume too much. You don't realize that I quit school in the 11th grade and got my GED. Was married at 16 with a baby on the way. Have remained married for 26 years and raised 3 boys through good and bad times. You don't realize that I lived and raised a family on 73 dollars per week. I was dirt poor and now I am not. I happen to own 2 business and provide employment for 10 employees. One of those companies is losing money on a monthly basis, but I have not laid anyone off, nor am I asking for a government bailout. Just because I have a Z06 doesn't mean I am wealthy. But I have what I have because I worked my ass off for the past 28 years. If you want such luxuries, then work your but off and when you earn it you can have it. For those people that are unemployed, and don't have a 6 month rainy day fun, well perhaps they should have educated themselves and put themselves in a situation to live more within their means. Don't you realize that this entire economic situation stemmed from people living beyone their means and buying homes they could not afford.

Bottom line, if you want something, then work for it. Don't go around seeking to get it from someone else. I suggest you read some history and you will find out that what our govnerment is doing now has NEVER worked, and it won't work this time. I challenge anyone to show me where it has worked.
__________________

+1

[UCF w00t]

Guys, this pipe dream that Chapter 11 will somehow disband or even lessen the role of the UAW is outlandish. In fact, Chapter 11 could increase the role of the UAW as they would get to start from scratch at the bargaining table and would have backing from all branches of the government. So please, stop using that as a reason they should go Ch. 11.

[Muscle Master]

I just have one thing to say:

Handing out tax payer money is not going to change anything if it's just going thru one hole and bleeding out the other ( just delaying Armageddon ), but doing nothing is not going to change anything neither

Something has to be done, and throwing precious cash at it ain't one of the solutions it's adding fuel to the problem at hand, I'm 17 and you guys are really making me nervous about paying taxes in the future, to the point that I'm thinking about going to school in Germany or Japan, doesn't sound half bad at all, which I would consider doing if the economy doesn't stabilize

It's going to be a rough decade

[UCF w00t]

The whole point of this plan is to stop the bleeding. That's why they're ditching brands and reworking contracts with the UAW, suppliers, and dealers. In the case of the UAW, they're just waiting on the union to ratify the new contract agreements.

Germany and Japan's governments are doing similar things and have been hit just as hard (if not harder, particularly Japan) in the economic downturn. You would be leaving one down economy for another that is even more down.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

The whole point of this plan is to stop the bleeding. That's why they're ditching brands and reworking contracts with the UAW, suppliers, and dealers. In the case of the UAW, they're just waiting on the union to ratify the new contract agreements.

Germany and Japan's governments are doing similar things and have been hit just as hard (if not harder, particularly Japan) in the economic downturn. You would be leaving one down economy for another that is even more down.

Then I assume Russia is out as well

This is I hate this

........... Damn Economy, don't mean to sound like a f-ing prick but a nice War doesn't sound half bad now

[Silver Streak]

Originally Posted by Supermans

We Floridians sure have lots of common sense



It is easy to run away from problems and many of us do when the times get tough. My only advice is that hiding away doesn't solve any problems, it only makes things worse for everyone including yourself. Just be informed as to what your politicians are doing and if you don't like what they are doing or their policies are failing you get to vote them out of office when the time comes.

Man I am a floridian, and I sure don't feel like bragging about it. Underpaid right to work state, has a hard time counting votes, raping us on property taxes, open land for anyone who wants to come, legal like or not, and more home foreclosures than most states, homeless people all along the coast, and almost half of the video clips of reality TV. I love it here because of the warmth and the views, and don't forget about the lax emissions laws, but to think that we have all this common sense down here, well it did make me giggle.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

Man I am a floridian, and I sure don't feel like bragging about it. Underpaid right to work state, has a hard time counting votes, raping us on property taxes, open land for anyone who wants to come, legal like or not, and more home foreclosures than most states, homeless people all along the coast, and almost half of the video clips of reality TV. I love it here because of the warmth and the views, and don't forget about the lax emissions laws, but to think that we have all this common sense down here, well it did make me giggle.

I think he was referring to people who have been born and raised in florida. This is getting way off topic but I'll defend my state...

Underpaid - meh, we also have a lower cost of living than many other states and actually, higher than national average per-capita income. That's even taking into consideration all the retirees with minimal income.

right to work state - ya damn right it is. Union membership should be optional. If some idiot wants to start a union there should be no reason for me to join and pay dues unless I support their cause.

so a few issues caused by old farts that aren't even from here 8+ years ago can never be left alone

raping us on property taxes - we have low property taxes and we don't have a state income tax. We have the 3rd lowest taxes in the country.

high foreclosure rate - duh, people from out of state (and some in state) jumped on the real estate bandwagon and drove property values to ridiculous levels for no reason. Florida had one of the highest increases in property state values so it makes sense that foreclosures are now higher here

homeless people along the coast - some areas are higher but I guess they just like the beach for whatever reason. Florida is in the middle of the road in overall homelessness though.

Reality tv - ummm whatever you say chief. It's just because we have a higher volume of hot chicks here

We live in the greatest state in the union. It's people from out of state that don't understand the rather libertarian mindset that makes Floridians who we are that come in and screw crap up.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by kylepo

Some analysts say that it could cost up to 100 billion to do a chap 11 and guess where that is coming from?

[Silver Streak]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

I think he was referring to people who have been born and raised in florida. This is getting way off topic but I'll defend my state...

Underpaid - meh, we also have a lower cost of living than many other states and actually, higher than national average per-capita income. That's even taking into consideration all the retirees with minimal income.

right to work state - ya damn right it is. Union membership should be optional. If some idiot wants to start a union there should be no reason for me to join and pay dues unless I support their cause.

so a few issues caused by old farts that aren't even from here 8+ years ago can never be left alone

raping us on property taxes - we have low property taxes and we don't have a state income tax. We have the 3rd lowest taxes in the country.

high foreclosure rate - duh, people from out of state (and some in state) jumped on the real estate bandwagon and drove property values to ridiculous levels for no reason. Florida had one of the highest increases in property state values so it makes sense that foreclosures are now higher here

homeless people along the coast - some areas are higher but I guess they just like the beach for whatever reason. Florida is in the middle of the road in overall homelessness though.

Reality tv - ummm whatever you say chief. It's just because we have a higher volume of hot chicks here

We live in the greatest state in the union. It's people from out of state that don't understand the rather libertarian mindset that makes Floridians who we are that come in and screw crap up.

Ok! I don't want to get into this too much, but I have lived in quite a few states, and I can tell you from experience this state is very hard to mak it. As far right to work, well I have never been forced to work in the union in any state. There are union shops and non union shops its your choice. This state is underpaid, my trade is 8$ hr under standard from the rest of the nation, and the cost of living I am sorry is not very low, I would guess that there are places that are cheaper than others, but I know where I live the cost of living has gone up 10 fold in 10yrs, and wages have not budged an inch. And the fact the unions don't have much weight here is the fact the the employers get away with practices that screw the employee. I respect your views especially for a young man, and you seem to keep up with things pretty good, but I will have to disagree with you somewhat on this one. BTW my property taxes went up 10 grand in 2 yrs. Don't get me wrong though, I do love this state and there are things I would never give up. But remember there are alot of choices out there and some states take car of their people better than others. There are numbers on everything, but then there is real life experience. Not attacking florida though, everyplace has its goods and bads, and my point was being here in Florida does not mean you are blessed with common sense. BTW the reality tv I was refering to was the shows like on spike with cop chases and convenience store robberies and such! Not the ones with the Hotties, no problems there! LOL

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

Ok! I don't want to get into this too much, but I have lived in quite a few states, and I can tell you from experience this state is very hard to mak it. As far right to work, well I have never been forced to work in the union in any state. There are union shops and non union shops its your choice. This state is underpaid, my trade is 8$ hr under standard from the rest of the nation, and the cost of living I am sorry is not very low, I would guess that there are places that are cheaper than others, but I know where I live the cost of living has gone up 10 fold in 10yrs, and wages have not budged an inch. And the fact the unions don't have much weight here is the fact the the employers get away with practices that screw the employee. I respect your views especially for a young man, and you seem to keep up with things pretty good, but I will have to disagree with you somewhat on this one. BTW my property taxes went up 10 grand in 2 yrs. Don't get me wrong though, I do love this state and there are things I would never give up. But remember there are alot of choices out there and some states take car of their people better than others. There are numbers on everything, but then there is real life experience. Not attacking florida though, everyplace has its goods and bads, and my point was being here in Florida does not mean you are blessed with common sense. BTW the reality tv I was refering to was the shows like on spike with cop chases and convenience store riobberies and such! Not the ones with the Hotties, no problems there! LOL

Tony Montana did okay in FL.....

[GLBL WMR]

For those of you who still can't see the light, please read a well thought out post by someone who bleeds GM but also understands how futile this has become:

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...6&postcount=25

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

I think he was referring to people who have been born and raised in florida. This is getting way off topic but I'll defend my state...

Underpaid - meh, we also have a lower cost of living than many other states and actually, higher than national average per-capita income. That's even taking into consideration all the retirees with minimal income.

right to work state - ya damn right it is. Union membership should be optional. If some idiot wants to start a union there should be no reason for me to join and pay dues unless I support their cause.

so a few issues caused by old farts that aren't even from here 8+ years ago can never be left alone

raping us on property taxes - we have low property taxes and we don't have a state income tax. We have the 3rd lowest taxes in the country.

high foreclosure rate - duh, people from out of state (and some in state) jumped on the real estate bandwagon and drove property values to ridiculous levels for no reason. Florida had one of the highest increases in property state values so it makes sense that foreclosures are now higher here

homeless people along the coast - some areas are higher but I guess they just like the beach for whatever reason. Florida is in the middle of the road in overall homelessness though.

Reality tv - ummm whatever you say chief. It's just because we have a higher volume of hot chicks here

We live in the greatest state in the union. It's people from out of state that don't understand the rather libertarian mindset that makes Floridians who we are that come in and screw crap up.

Way to go defending Florida

Florida is a great state to live in and I'm proud to be an American, even when I don't agree with anything our leaders are doing at the moment. Whichever side of the isle you politically lean, there is at least half of the people who agree with you and half that don't. A little more than half put faith in Obama and he is putting forth his agenda in full force. This agenda will affect 100% of voters and even those who decided not to vote. Some of us here support the bailout, others do not. For those that support the bailout, what makes you think that there won't be more handouts needed to keep things going in the near future? The truth of the matter is that very few people will willingly give up their freedoms. However the trick that is going on now is to slowly take those freedoms away little by little and before you realize they are gone, it is too late. For example we all want to be able to own and drive a gas guzzling powerful V8 and are willing to pay $20,000 more than we need to in order to simply buy the car over the many econo-boxes out there. Then we are willing to pay more for gas, more for insurance and more on repairs. If we are willing to do all of this and we still want to buy a damn V8, then why should even more restrictions be placed to make it harder for the auto companies to build these vehicles and why should we have to pay even more in penalties to own one?? If you let the Government keep bailing out GM and getting more and more control with this auto panel and auto czar, the Government will do all those things I describe above and not wink an eye about it.

[UCF w00t]

To all of you saying that GM should just file chapter 11...

"I don't know what you're going to call it, but they're going to go through bankruptcy, whether outside the bankruptcy system or with the benefit of the courts," said Maryann Keller, who has written about the U.S. auto industry for three decades. "At the end of the day, the United Auto Workers are going to have to take a haircut, creditors are going to take a huge haircut and equity is gone. What will effectively happen is exactly the same as bankruptcy."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

This is a pretty good article and is what I've been saying. This is basically bankruptcy without the title of it that will lead sales off a cliff.

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

Ok! I don't want to get into this too much, but I have lived in quite a few states, and I can tell you from experience this state is very hard to mak it. As far right to work, well I have never been forced to work in the union in any state. There are union shops and non union shops its your choice. This state is underpaid, my trade is 8$ hr under standard from the rest of the nation, and the cost of living I am sorry is not very low, I would guess that there are places that are cheaper than others, but I know where I live the cost of living has gone up 10 fold in 10yrs, and wages have not budged an inch. And the fact the unions don't have much weight here is the fact the the employers get away with practices that screw the employee. I respect your views especially for a young man, and you seem to keep up with things pretty good, but I will have to disagree with you somewhat on this one. BTW my property taxes went up 10 grand in 2 yrs. Don't get me wrong though, I do love this state and there are things I would never give up. But remember there are alot of choices out there and some states take car of their people better than others. There are numbers on everything, but then there is real life experience. Not attacking florida though, everyplace has its goods and bads, and my point was being here in Florida does not mean you are blessed with common sense. BTW the reality tv I was refering to was the shows like on spike with cop chases and convenience store robberies and such! Not the ones with the Hotties, no problems there! LOL

Right-to-work is laws that prevent union dues being mandatory for all employees of a trade or company.

I cannot speak for your trade but FL has higher than average national income. It just does. Wages haven't gone up in other states either soo....

Property tax went up because the "value" of your home went up. This was particularly a problem beachside or near the beaches (I see you live in NSB). Has your latest property tax gone down? I'm sure it will this year.

I don't want my state taking care of me or anyone else. That's my job. This value is intrinsic in the nature of Florida and Floridians. Notice that this is one of the last states with no income tax. We like the government to stay out of our business. Sadly, however, newer immigrants are causing these values to be lost.

Your evidence is anecdotal. The numbers paint a broader picture. I don't know when you lived elsewhere and here but you're comparing different times. The specific things you mentioned have changed dramatically here in the last few years due to external forces. It'll all level off. We're already seeing it. All the foreclosures were a necessary correction for the absurd housing market.

And his comment about common sense wasn't meant literally I'm sure. We definitely have our fair share of morons. But then again, they're mostly from the northeast