Pontiac coming back?

[ariZona28]

I'm still 'ol school. Real Pontiacs had round headlights and Pontiac engines.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

This is the part I struggle with re: proximity keys. Walking past our EV in the garage means it lights up and gets ready to go. My phone is in my pocket and I've gone to the garage to fetch something else. I didn't intend to drive the car.

Trying to wash it or clean the interior is a *show. Walk away, and it locks. Walk near it, it unlocks. Swipe under the rear bumper and the hatch will open. Touch the screen with a cleaning towel and the dash lights up because it's taken input. Accidentally press a button on the console and the infotainment wants input, or it's already taken input and is doing something I didn't actually intend to do.

And that's one issue I have with modern vehicles. There are so many settings, modes, and overly "helpful" aides and configurations, and they're all programmed differently, behave differently. It's like how video games evolved from "Pong" to 17 sequels of an RPG with an elaborate plot line that takes thousands of hours to conquer and requires a significant investment of time/energy/machinery just to play it. I'm not dumb, it's just at this stage in life I struggle to find these things ultimately useful or worthy of the time/energy to fully understand and configure them. A physical key and simple fob in hand is something I think we all took for granted, and its evolution I think is an answer to questions that weren't necessarily being asked. Perhaps by people who find a simple car key to be a "hassle". Me? I'm of the belief that a hammer can be a very elegant and versatile tool. I find this new stuff to be a "hassle", and don't appreciate the fact that for most of these cars there doesn't seem to be an simple "dumb" mode, or if there is, it takes pages of reading and configuration to dial back it's supposed helpfulness.

Our EV has a partial self-driving mode. I don't trust it. It's a gimmick. I'm still responsible for the car and my own safety, and the safety of others, and I have to second-guess what it's doing and be ready to take over if it does something stupid, which it does. I also can't train it to NOT drive like a teenager. It follows too close, brakes too hard, and doesn't anticipate things in extended sight distance. I tried to let it do its thing while I had to eat breakfast on the run, and yeah, I can kind of see where it's helpful so you can momentarily take your eyes off the road or reduce the level of input needed, but ultimately we as drivers shouldn't be doing that. Shouldn't be eating on the run, shouldn't be taking our eyes off the road.

But I digress and get distracted. I'm still waiting for a manufacturer who will produce an arguably performance-oriented EV where there isn't an equal purpose to automate and simplify (through overhead of configuration and prediction) the driving experience. To really take control of our iX I have to configure it that way, and that's one thing I find to be incredibly annoying as a driver/enthusiast.

Interesting. In the Tesla there is a car wash mode that I can access either through the screen or voice command. There is also a way to pause the system from the screen (I haven’t tried using a voice command for that yet). There’s also a mode to lock the screen so that you can clean it. Simple on screen access so I haven’t bothered with voice command there.

Very much agree with you regarding the driver assist technologies. That’s really what “Autopilot” is. ADAS. Advanced Driver Assist System. Tesla’s Autopilot and systems like it are basically Level 2 ADAS (out of 5 levels). Basically Full Range Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Keeping.

Tesla Full Self Driving, GM SuperCruise, Ford BlueCruise are all examples of Level 2+. Level 2+ was inserted into the lexicon because they have additional cзlability like Lane Changing, Traffic Sign / Signal Recognition and more advanced pedestrian mitigation technologies, but they are not quite up to Level 3 which would. Include other things like emergency vehicle recognition and a few other things I can’t recall off the top of my head.

My car has Autopilot. I use it quite a bit but I recognize its limitations. Does a great job at maintaining center of lane in traffic and maintaining the right distance from vehicles in front of me. Absolutely fantastic in traffic jams. Comes to a complete stop when it needs to and resumes motion when it’s supposed to.

I did the 30-day Full Self Driving demo last month. I’d say in my usage it scored a 99%. Managed traffic circles splendidly. Made its on lane change decisions in highway traffic. Recognized appropriate exit lanes and traffic rules. Worked near perfectly 99% of the time. Thing is, that other 1% is all you need to get yourself killed, so I took a pass on adding it to my vehicle, even though Tesla cut the price in half.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

I'm still 'ol school. Real Pontiacs had round headlights and Pontiac engines.

I’m also old school, but my favorite Pontiac of all time had quad rectangulars.

[102SS]

Well the mystery is over gm has released an official statement saying the ad was not theirs and that it was a fake

Here is this first paragraph for those that do not wan to click.

GM provided the following official statement to the media regarding the ‘Pontiac Is Back’ ad:

“We understand the ad was a joke and it was not placed by GM or anyone affiliated with GM. We appreciate the passion for all our brands as well as a good sense of humor.”

The ad, which appeared on the back page of Car and Driver, proclaimed “Pontiac Is Back” in bold lettering, sparking a flurry of speculation. Car enthusiasts, as well as industry experts, all weighed in on the ad’s meaning, even though at the bottom of the ad a line of text clearly stated that the ad was indeed fake and “not to be taken seriously.”

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/05...s-back-ad/amp/

Case Closed//

[Evergreen6]

Beats the point home that folks will get excited about anything they read in the media even if it's stamped right on there it's not meant to be taken seriously..

How annoying...gmauthority didn't even address who bought the ad space. We all want to know!

[olrocker]

GM simply doesn’t listen to their passionate customer base. End of story. And anyone who worked/works for GM that wants to throw all their “knowledge” to “prove” to me otherwise can just save the keystrokes on their computer or taps on their phone.

There is enough passion still in existence for Pontiac to exist with exciting cars with gasoline engines.

No one will ever convince me otherwise.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

GM simply doesn’t listen to their passionate customer base. End of story. And anyone who worked/works for GM that wants to throw all their “knowledge” to “prove” to me otherwise can just save the keystrokes on their computer or taps on their phone.

There is enough passion still in existence for Pontiac to exist with exciting cars with gasoline engines.

No one will ever convince me otherwise.

I don't think anyone said there isn't still passion for Pontiac.

But I think GM listens to its customer base which ultimately pay the bills and makes profit. Guys buying GTO and G8's in the 2000's weren't exactly keeping the lights on over there.

Something you and I can't answer as current or former GM employees at an executive level is if any excitement for Pontiac these days could ever have a hope of turning a profit. There are a lot of smart people at GM committed to a lasting and successful company. We have to assume Pontiac didn't come back for reasons other than they're just being dumb and mean.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

I don't think anyone said there isn't still passion for Pontiac.

But I think GM listens to its customer base which ultimately pay the bills and makes profit. Guys buying GTO and G8's in the 2000's weren't exactly keeping the lights on over there.

Something you and I can't answer as current or former GM employees at an executive level is if any excitement for Pontiac these days could ever have a hope of turning a profit. There are a lot of smart people at GM committed to a lasting and successful company. We have to assume Pontiac didn't come back for reasons other than they're just being dumb and mean.

Book smart ≠ street smart.

The Monaro GTO looked too much like a Chevy Malibu.

The SS Sedan looked too much like an Impala.

Numbers on a spreadsheet do not represent reality.

Build a car people want and advertise it right. I will absolutely wager the deed to my house it will turn a profit if done right.

I do not mince words there. No joke.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Book smart ≠ street smart.

The Monaro GTO looked too much like a Chevy Malibu.

The SS Sedan looked too much like an Impala.

Numbers on a spreadsheet do not represent reality.

Build a car people want and advertise it right. I will absolutely wager the deed to my house it will turn a profit if done right.

I do not mince words there. No joke.

We disagree on a lot, but on nothing more than the GTO looking like a Malibu. It was the Grand Prix coupe's doppelgänger. The internet is still smoldering about it 20 years later.

It's possible for people to have highly functional blends of "book smart" and "street smart". There are a lot of highly qualified car enthusiasts who work for GM these days. I just don't think some guy on the internet is going to run GM better than the existing leadership. Sorry.

[102SS]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Beats the point home that folks will get excited about anything they read in the media even if it's stamped right on there it's not meant to be taken seriously..

How annoying...gmauthority didn't even address who bought the ad space. We all want to know!

C&D does not publish monthly anymore.

The last 2 pages were April Fools jokes.

John Phillips love for the Alpha Milano was pure satire(he is usually in the middle of the magazine.)

The page they put Phillips on is usually reserved for a story on a future collectable.


Then the infamous back inside cover that C&D chose to cause a stir which probably lead to increased sales.

They did publish disclaimers

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

We disagree on a lot, but on nothing more than the GTO looking like a Malibu. It was the Grand Prix coupe's doppelgänger. The internet is still smoldering about it 20 years later.

It's possible for people to have highly functional blends of "book smart" and "street smart". There are a lot of highly qualified car enthusiasts who work for GM these days. I just don't think some guy on the internet is going to run GM better than the existing leadership. Sorry.

GM operates with spreadsheets and accountants. Don’t give me the BS that they have enthusiasts…… the enthusiasts they might have have a boss who prevents them from using their passions to their fullest extent.

Most if not all record companies around in 1958 would NOT have produced and released Ray Charles’ What’d I Say because it was too long and was too sexually charged for the era. Atlantic and Ahmet Ertegun said let’s do it - even though people advised him not to.

I remain firm in my position GM needs a John DeLorean as CEO. Not Mary Barra.

Take risks. Be bold. F—- trends - make your own and ignore the status quo. Heck that would be an AMAZING advertisement hook line for the new Pontiac!

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

GM operates with spreadsheets and accountants. Don’t give me the BS that they have enthusiasts…… the enthusiasts they might have have a boss who prevents them from using their passions to their fullest extent.

Most if not all record companies around in 1958 would NOT have produced and released Ray Charles’ What’d I Say because it was too long and was too sexually charged for the era. Atlantic and Ahmet Ertegun said let’s do it - even though people advised him not to.

I remain firm in my position GM needs a John DeLorean as CEO. Not Mary Barra.

Take risks. Be bold. F—- trends - make your own and ignore the status quo. Heck that would be an AMAZING advertisement hook line for the new Pontiac!

Yeah and GM gave us a mid-engined Corvette with supercar numbers for less than $100k. 5G Copo, Z28, 6th Gen Camaro, ZL1. Cadillac performance models. ZR2's. Hummer EV. There's a lot of boldness and f*ing trends therein, just not under a Pontiac badge--because it's dead.

John Delorean succumbed to a crack habit and was busted for smuggling cocaine and his car company never went anywhere. He was probably safer to stick with GM, as he was a former employee in the Pontiac division.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Book smart ≠ street smart.

The Monaro GTO looked too much like a Chevy Malibu.

The SS Sedan looked too much like an Impala.

Numbers on a spreadsheet do not represent reality.

Build a car people want and advertise it right. I will absolutely wager the deed to my house it will turn a profit if done right.

I do not mince words there. No joke.

Performance cars can only look like whatever cars upon which they are based.

A 1964 GTO looked like a lowly Tempest. Because that's what it was. Not the least bit special at the time.

A 1965 GTO also looked, for the most part, just like a Tempest. Because it was a Tempest

Eventually the GTO became it's own model, but it spent years being just an optioned up Tempest. Yet people loved them.

A 60's era Impala SS looked just like, well, a common Impala with a few badges and trim pieces. Yet people loved them.

The '04-'06 GTO's were fantastic cars that nobody bought. The Chevy SS was an even better car that even less people bought.

It seems that people in the 60's were crazy about buying performance versions of common cars whereas nowadays people are not.

GM never has and never will build a special, clean sheet performance car. (Even the Corvette started life as a doggy sports car wannabe that almost got axed.) But they gave it two solid shots right out of the super successful 60's playbook and people said no thanks.

It seems the marked has spoken.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Performance cars can only look like whatever cars upon which they are based.

A 1964 GTO looked like a lowly Tempest. Because that's what it was. Not the least bit special at the time.

A 1965 GTO also looked, for the most part, just like a Tempest. Because it was a Tempest

Eventually the GTO became it's own model, but it spent years being just an optioned up Tempest. Yet people loved them.

A 60's era Impala SS looked just like, well, a common Impala with a few badges and trim pieces. Yet people loved them.

The '04-'06 GTO's were fantastic cars that nobody bought. The Chevy SS was an even better car that even less people bought.

Firebird/TA always looked much more aggressive and meaner than Camaro. Grand Prix W-Bodies looked far more performance oriented than any other W-Body cousin. The G8 looked more 3-Series-esque than any other sedan GM sold in America.

My point is Pontiac did a great job differentiating their style enough to make them stand out and be unique. There was enough differentiation in the original GTO after 1964 when it became its own model that even my Mom could tell the difference between a GTO and a Tempest by a simple quick glance.

GM did the 04-06 GTO wrong by simply making a “Pontiac” front clip on the Monaro. More aggressive and attention-grabbing design would have increased sales (as well as better advertising and promotion).

Makes cars that people want because they grab people’s attention. Cars that make people WANT to run out to their nearest dealer to look at a new car any time. Not just when they need a new car. Not because they have 11 cup holders and a $299/mo lease special.

People are holding on to cars longer now be because they’re more reliable and last longer than they ever have.

Want to increase sales again? It’s not that hard: make cars people want!