[Ls_Camaro]

Originally Posted by semif18

So I've had my ZLE for a couple of weeks now. 1300 miles on the clock so I'm getting to the end of break in. I've read different things about the 1500 mile break in. One says no more than 4000 rpm until 500 miles and no tracking until 1500 miles? Another says no more than 4000 rpm until 1500 miles? I've kinda crossed the streams and took her to about 5000 rpm on this last drive. I'm kind of in between mild and wild right now......

Even with a few relatively mild, though spirited drives, I've developed what I think is a pretty good initial feel for this car compared to the others I listed, which were all of my previous cars.

First off the ZLE is a VERY fast car. Up there with my 09' ZR1. It's been a couple of years since owning the ZR1, which I think is still a slight bit faster in a straight line, but wow does the ZLE push you back in your seat.

GT4 is the most nimble of all the cars. Makes sense since it's the lightest by a good margin. Mid engine with telepathic handling. Not a "fast" car, but it does scoot when the revs are up.

Z/28 is the most raw most analog and in some ways the most fun car of all the cars I've owned, but the ZLE is making a claim to that crown with it's smile inducing acceleration on top of a very similar feeling to the Z/28. I really love the simplicity of the Z/28, I've said it numerous times. I wish the ZLE were so basic in some ways (I really wish the ZLE had manual seats).

The 2013 ZL1 I owned was just a great all around car. Jack of all trades. Fast and fun. Really not much to say about it. Did everything well.

The two best shifting cars are the ZLE and GT4. I thought the GT4 could never be matched but the ZLE transmission is absolute butter like the GT4! The Z/28 is right behind those two.

Gearing is a tie between all the Camaros. If I remember correctly they felt like they were all geared about the same. GT4 gearing is too tall. ZR1 was great too.

Overall performance there's no doubt the ZR1 and ZLE are on top. I haven't yet really wrung out the ZLE, but I can tell it's waiting to be unleashed. One thing I will say about the technically "slowest" cars of the bunch is that I actually liked that the Z/28 and GT4 could be wrung out without too much worry. I could turn everything off and I never ever felt like I was gonna lose control. I turned traction control completely off in the ZR1 one time.....once.....and almost went off the highway. I never did it again. Too much HP for the rear tires on a relatively light car. I've been driving around in Track mode in the ZLE (and what I think is another sublevel where you can select DRY, WET.....RACE, etc......I select RACE......it's a bit confusing). I feel like if I just floor it I could lose the rear with all that hp.

Handling overall in very close order I'd probably say: GT4, ZLE tie with Z/28, ZR1, ZL1.

Brakes, even though they are steel brakes.....I never thought I'd say this but I think the ZLE might have all those Carbon Ceramics beat, at least when it comes to feel. The ZLE brakes are fantastic!

I'm not gonna put the cars in order of my most favorite to least favorite. I really did love them all. The Z/28 was really a special car that I definitely miss the most, but they were all great for different reasons.

Those are just quick thoughts. Currently I'm enamored with the newness of the ZLE so I'm kinda biased. What I do know without a doubt is that I really do LOVE the car. I just got back from a drive in the mountains and I was just shaking my head and smiling the entire time. VERY happy I bought it!

Very enjoyable read thanks for sharing. That's awesome you had the C6 ZR1 that car is really fast. I have a C6 LS3 and I'm curious to know if the Z28 would be just as fast as it speedwise in a straight line race stock for stock. I know the Z28 has the same LS7 motor as the C6 Z06 but it obviously wouldnt be as fast considering the fact that it's a few hundred pounds heavier. So I'm just curious would a 5th gen Z28 pretty much be comparable to a C6 LS3 stock for stock? Are they pretty much just as fast as eachother?

[Checkmate1]

As someone who owned a line of M cars (E46, E90) etc. followed by a C7 Z06.. the ZLE was essentially a pursuit of everything that I loved about the golden age of M cars coupled with the power of the C7 Z06.

2 years into owning the ZLE, I have never been more impressed and thrilled with a car as much. Every driver input is perfectly calibrated with a chassis that loves to be pushed and inspires confidence.

The ZLE rights all of the wrongs of the C7 Z06 and then some.

[hooligan317]

Great thread, thanks to all for the contributions! My 20 ZLE has become track-only, which sadly means 8-10 events a year if I'm lucky living in the Midwest. Each event I go to, I always find myself drooling over the GT4's, and the thought of the 718 GT4 with PDK for 2021 has had me thinking awfully hard about adding one to the stable. My ZLE is a 6MT and I wouldn't trade that trans choice for the world, but every Porsche I've driven with PDK has felt phenomenal and it would be hard to pass up. I find myself wondering if I did pick up a GT4 and took it out to the occasional PCA event or something, would I want to replace the ZLE with it as full-time track duty? I suppose that would be a good problem to have at that point to have to make that decision. Anyway, enough of my rambling, carry on!

[Checkmate1]

I think people need to be fully honest about the pros/cons of each car.

The ZLE is without a doubt an amazing car however if it does have an achilles heel - it's weight. I understand the economics of it.

The ZLE is one of those rare cars that is calibrated to feel light and nimble. Tremendous feat by the engineers.

As for me....I will stick with the ZLE for a variety of reasons in this season of my life.

P.s. Tips for the OP -

• Wait till you switch the struts to track camber and then get it aligned properly. It turns like a fly. (My first track day in the ZLE is coming up in a few weeks so cannot wait).
  
• Exhaust Mods - Secondary CAT Delete (At any muffler shop). Will open up your stock exhaust. You could also get something like AWE Touring to open it up.
  
• Katech Ported Throttle Body - Highly recommended as it is very easy to do and will remove any throttle hesitation/bog from a dead stop.

[Techdude99]

@serper3 I have a couple friends that picked up 911's due to the back seats. They regretted it after putting in the baby seats. Very hard to maneuver.

I'm very happy with my ZL1 1LE on the track but it's impossible to drive on the roads where I live. If I had to do it over again, I would have picked up the non-1LE or moved somewhere that actually maintains the infrastructure or lost 50 lbs first

It's an amazing car for the price.

[MoreSpeed]

OP, I have enjoyed this discussion. I am doing autox with a ZL1. It is great fun, but I really feel the weight. Also, it is too much power for AutoX, at least on short courses. Breath just a little too much on the throttle, and I have blown the run. Fast when I get it right. The ZL1 is so much fun, but just not the right car for the competition I am doing. I am winning local CamC, but not competitive in regional events.

I have had 4 Porsches and checked out the GT4. It did just not seem visceral enough if that makes any sense. Also it is classed with GT3's. I would love to have both, but that is a lot of money to have tied up in impractical cars. I can't seem to want to give up the ZL1. Maybe I keep it and get a MX-5 Club, or trade for a GT3, if I can get the allocation. The miata's aren't the most desirable cars, but they do great in AutoX.

Those GT3's are visceral, especially at near 9000 RPM, but they have also really jumped up in price. I had the ZL1 on a track. Then, it was the right car, and the ZLE would have been better. Its just that I do more AutoX than track. However, forget the huge price of the GT3. With just the sales tax on the GT3, excise tax on it, and the second set of wheels and tires alone on the GT3, I could buy the Club. The GT3 is a great car from past experience. Lot of cost. Lot of value. Holds it value.

It was nice to hear input from someone who has had both the ZLE platform and the GT4. Choices.

[ZX-10R]

Would love to see track comparison of properly set up ZLE vs used GT3 (i.e. similar price ranges, less than 100k)

ZLE just needs that Magnuson 2650 to stave off the heat soak and 700 rwhp - it would be hard to beat, even with some extra weight

[Checkmate1]

We all need to be cognizant of the value equation here.

GT4 Buy In - New w/options is roughly between $110k - $120k + Tax/Title. ADM may be charged by dealer.

GT3 Buy In - New w/options is roughly between $169k - $190k + Tax/Title (2022 model). ADM may be charged by dealer.

ZLE Buy In - New w/options is roughly $74k - $75k + Tax/Title. Generally no ADM's.

Keep in mind that the ZLE is mostly purchased at a heavy discount.

There is generally 0 possibility for discounts on a GT product unless you've been a long time customer.

Keep in mind that a PDK 991.2 GT3 lapped the ring at 7:12.

Meanwhile a Manual ZLE w/backseats lapped the Nurburgring at 7:16 (with an unofficial 7:13 that also happened).

These are all track day cars so lap times matter.

You could buy 2 ZLE's for the price of a GT3 and still have money left over for consumables. In addition - you don't have to be precious with it.

The best car is one where you can hoon it and not worry about it breaking your wallet.

[LiquidRS]

Great thread and discussion guys. I'm torn between a GT4 and ZLE 6 speed at the moment. In Dubai I can get a 2016 Gt4 for around $75k and as there are no ZLE's locally I would have to import one from the states, fully landed cost approaching $85k. My current track car is a C6 Z06 with lots of track mods, its a beast but being 14 years old, its now just too unreliable to beat around the track, I want something turnkey and bullet proof. I have a 997 RS in my stable and also track my partners 991 RS often. I think I would grow tired of the GT4 quickly even though the chassis is sublime. Wish I could drive a ZLE before pulling the trigger but thats not a viable option obviously. Things that concern me about the ZLE is heat management (given that even in winter ambient temps are usually around 30 degrees celcius here) and the lack of warranty. Decisions decisions, first world problems

[d15b7]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Would love to see track comparison of properly set up ZLE vs used GT3 (i.e. similar price ranges, less than 100k)

hey there! there is no GT3 for less than $100k that will stand toe to toe laptimes with a ZLE. unless maybe you bought a high mileage cosmetically imperfect 997 GT3 (R title maybe) and stripped it and lightened it up a ton, and made it a track only car basically. then maybe you could approach the lap time of a bone stock recent ZLE.

just as reference take a look at this historical laptime comparison (C&D Lightning laps). yes, I know it's done over years of timeframe, and the track conditions are never the same, and the drivers are rotated in and out, but it gives an idea of the performance of the various cars:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

the ZLE is way the hell up in the rankings there (20th of all time). there are only 4 Porsches that are in front of it and none of them are even remotely near the $100k price point. I think you'd need to drop way down on the list to buy a Porsche for $100k, and then you'd be 5+ secs slower. that's a lifetime slower per lap.

yes yes definitely you can say oh then I'll modify the Porsche and it'll be faster; yes I'm sure that's pretty true, but of course there are cons. usually doing that to a nice car like the Porsche devalues it (after you've just spent a ton of money on mods haha; been there done that!). and it typically really hurts the 'normal driving' experience when not on track. (noise vibration harshness. the stripped down racecar factor). and reliability usually suffers some too.

so, I'd say that if you really wanted to get a $100k Porsche, and have it run with a stock ZLE, it would be quite a trick. but probably could be done. if I were to be challenged with that - I'd look for something like a 996 TT; with some miles and some cosmetic blemishes, or maybe a 997 TT with a ton of miles and/or an R title). maybe buy it for $40k hopefully maybe a touch less. do a complete maintenance on the entire car and exhaust and a serious performance tune up (600ish hp) on it (and hope its sound to start with). do a heavy duty clutch/PP. completely do the suspension (coilovers race shocks swaybars all new bushings etc etc). upgrade the brakes (fronts especially). and take out as much weight as possibly could (seats, AC, sound insulation stereo). put on lightweight wheels and sticky tires. I think that would run with a ZLE. and even at that I'm not positive it would be under $100k if done by a shop. I think it most like positively would be for sure if you did the work yourself.

or you could have the ZLE with a full warranty that can go out and get 'er done with no changes from stock. that's kinda why this is almost a miracle car that I still can't believe that GM produced/produces!!!

EDIT: if you wanted to go a LOT faster with the ZLE, it could be done with very little money. dump weight. take out the heavy seats and put in racing seats. remove the plethora of airbags. take out the AC. remove the infotainment and killer stereo. remove carpets rear seats trunk mats headliner sound insulation. I bet you could dump hundreds of pounds doing that. and I think for very little additional money you could throw a few basic performance parts at the engine and get it professionally tuned and then you'd go lots faster.

PS i'd miss those nice comforts for street driving and wouldn't do that to my car, but it COULD be done easily

[LiquidRS]

^ A lot of the delta in laptimes between generations of cars can be explained by the progress made on the tyre front. Cup 2R's, Trofeo R's etc, are super sticky and designed to extract a few mega laps before their performance peters out. It would be interesting for example to stick some new tyres on a C6 Z06 and see how close it gets to a ZLE laptime.

[semif18]

So it finally dawned on me how to describe the difference between the ZLE and the GT4. I said earlier I was gonna post a more detailed comparison. Apologies that I didn't do that. The GT4 is a refined sports car. Quick, fantastic handling, just does everything right. The GT4 is the dude that works in finance and wears a suit and tie to dinner. The ZLE is his crazy talented buffed cousin with wild hair who works out at the gym then does ski jumping off cliffs for entertainment. No doubt the ZLE is a faster car, lap times everywhere have proven that. To me it feels faster everywhere, with a lot of it having to do with all that extra power. It's a Hoonigan car, bonkers fun, rougher around the edges, not as refined but for me a much more entertaining car to drive. It's just smile inducing ripping through the gears on this thing, and I'm not really getting on it yet. I just want to go out and drive it, which is probably the biggest compliment I can pay it. Lots of great discussion on value vs performance, which is a factor for most people. In that category there is no comparison between GT4 and ZLE, the ZLE wins without a doubt, end of story. If we start talking about which is a "better" car.......now we go down the rabbit hole of defining better. Means different things to different people. You cannot go wrong with either car, you really can't. If you get a GT4 you are getting a fantastic car. If you get a ZLE you are also getting a fantastic car. It's win/win all around.

[semif18]

One other factor I was talking to some folks about today at Cars and Coffee is the cost of mods. Again, no comparison here. You can spend relatively little money and add serious horsepower to the ZLEs already substantial amount. It costs a LOT of $ to get significant hp gains in a Porsche.

[semif18]

Originally Posted by ZX-10R

Would love to see track comparison of properly set up ZLE vs used GT3 (i.e. similar price ranges, less than 100k)

ZLE just needs that Magnuson 2650 to stave off the heat soak and 700 rwhp - it would be hard to beat, even with some extra weight

Folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are heat soak issues with the ZLE. All the issues the Z06 had were fixed with significantly more coolers on the ZLE. One of the posters is a pro racer and he mentioned tracking the ZLE and not having it get warm at all.