Looks like GM and Ford guys may have to share this forum section

Fenderaddict2 · 09-30-2012, 06:21 AM

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/report-ford-gm-to-jointly-develop-new-9-10-speed-automatic-transmissions-173439.html

Ford is probably developing the rear drive one as it will have to harness the power of the GT500's replacement engine with 700+ horsepower. ;-)

Three of Swords · 09-30-2012, 10:43 AM

If that's true, it should be interesting hearing all the gripes and rivalry comments from both factions.

I can see it now...

Enthusiast of brand A: I dont' see why you <brand B> guys are having problems. We're not!
Enthusiast of brand B: Well if your car made real horsepower you'd be having the same problems!

MEDISIN · 09-30-2012, 10:54 AM

I feel like transmissions are the one area of the drivetrain where American manufacturers are lagging. Both Ford and GM have potent 2.0L turbo 4's now, all we need is an 8+ speed tranny to eek out more mpg without sacrificing power delivery when needed. Hopefully joint development will accelerate the timeline to production.

DarkneSS · 09-30-2012, 11:08 AM

This is great for American vehicles. A lot of the problems with our 5th gens trannys are because they are cheaply made imported transmissions.

Do we really need that many gears though? What will this do for performance?

The Stig · 09-30-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

This is great for American vehicles. A lot of the problems with our 5th gens trannys are because they are cheaply made imported transmissions.

Do we really need that many gears though? What will this do for performance?

Having an 8 speed transmission won't change performance. The gear ratios would pretty much stay the same except 7th would be a smaller version of 6th, and 8th a smaller version of 7th. Basically giving us "super economy" gears. A lot big rigs have 8 speed transmissions to help with MPG. I remember reading that the new Cadillac was getting an 8 speed too - but don't remember the model, so don't quote me on that.

archtaan · 09-30-2012, 12:23 PM

It will likely increase performance and fuel economy. The 1st 5-6 gears or so will be much more tightly geared and more aggressive for less rpm drop and better gear multiplication.

Look at the Chrysler 300 V6 for example. The 5 speed car did 0-60 in 7.3 while the 8 speed car does 0-60 in 6.6 despite being 391 pounds heavier than the previous car (not tranny, overall weight). Combine that with 31mpg on the highway (6 better than the 5 speed) and thats a great combo.

Source C&D 5speed vs 8speed 300 V6.

Here are Chryslers gear ratios. I suspect GM/Ford will be similar but have some unique gears.

Gear 8R70 8 speed
1 4.71
2 3.14
3 2.10
4 1.67
5 1.29
6 1.00
7 0.84
8 0.67

Gear WA580 5 speed
1 3.59
2 2.19
3 1.41
4 1.00
5 0.83

Russell James · 09-30-2012, 01:31 PM

Nothing new, several of the current 6 spd FWD trans used since 07 are joint GM/Ford designed. Such as the trans in a Traverse/Acadia/Enclave.

I had an '07 Acadia that was reprogrammed I think about 5 times by the dealer with shift updates and never did shift right.

It's all a marketing thing... the Joneses have 8 speeds, so the smiths need 9.... then 10...

Once it got over 5 speeds, I think the rest is just marketing BS and makes for a busy and horrible shifting transmission. It also kills reliability to jam all those gears and clutch packs into the relatively same size case. You wind up with smaller and lighter parts. Look at a TR6060, and how small the synchros and blockers are. Put only five gears in that case and everything could be bigger and more durable. 6 speed autos are the same way. Build huge horsepower, better yank out that 6 spd auto and replace with a 3 or 4 speed auto with a much stronger build.

KMPrenger · 09-30-2012, 02:47 PM

I really like the 6 speeds in my V6...I think the spacing is just about perfect really. I can see adding a 7th or 8th gear so that 6 - 8 end up becomming the highway gears.

Leave 1st where its at, and then just bring gears 2 - 5 in a bit tighter and I think that would be nice. I do like being able to get well over 100 MPH in 3rd though...I would hate to give that up but I'm thinking I'd have to give that up if those gears are brough in tighter.

I don't see a need for 9 - 10 gears at all.

FenwickHockey65 · 09-30-2012, 05:12 PM

GM trucks will be getting 8 speeds pretty soon.

Angrybird 12 · 09-30-2012, 05:23 PM

Here is what motortrend has on it.

The idea of historic rivals Ford and General Motors working together may seem far-fetched or unbelievable to some, but the two companies have just signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly develop next-generation nine and 10-speed automatic transmissions for use in passenger cars, trucks and SUVs, Automotive News reports.

According to the report, GM will take the lead in the development of nine-speed automatic transmissions for use in front-drive and transverse applications, while Ford will head up development on 10-speed automatic transmissions designed for use in rear-drive applications such as performance and luxury cars, trucks and SUVs.

This is not the first time the two companies have collaborated on development of transmissions, as the two companies joined forces in 2002 to develop six-speed automatic transmissions for front-wheel drive vehicles. Those transmissions ultimately came to market branded as the Ford 6F and GM 6T70 automatic transmissions used in such high-volume models as the Ford Fusion and Escape, and Chevrolet Cruze and Malibu. There was also speculation going back to 2008 that the two companies were looking at joint powertrain development.

Prior to this announcement, both companies were reportedly at work on in-house eight-speed automatic transmissions for use in rear-drive vehicles. GM’s eight-speed may make it to production in limited volumes in the new Cadillac CTS, but Ford’s home-grown eight-speed program has reportedly been scrapped in favor of this new proposed joint-venture.

Minus_Z28 · 10-02-2012, 09:54 AM

The corvette guys are claiming GM's 8-speed auto has been revealed to be in the 2014 C7.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-g...found-out.html

Number 3 · 10-02-2012, 07:13 PM

Keep in mind, Jaguar used GM automatic transmissions for years.

And the dirty secret? Several years ago BMW used GM's 5 speed automatic well before GM ever found a use for it in the CTS.

Transmissions are really about calibration these days. Hardware is getting close to invisible to the customer.

09-30-2012, 06:21 AM	#1
Fenderaddict2 Opinionated bugger! Drives: Boss 302, Mazda 2, Praga & Intrepid Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Oakville Posts: 1,897 View My Garage	Looks like GM and Ford guys may have to share this forum section http://rumors.automobilemag.com/report-ford-gm-to-jointly-develop-new-9-10-speed-automatic-transmissions-173439.html Ford is probably developing the rear drive one as it will have to harness the power of the GT500's replacement engine with 700+ horsepower. ;-)

09-30-2012, 10:43 AM	#2
Three of Swords Drives: 2011 IBM 1SS/RS L99 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MI Posts: 300	If that's true, it should be interesting hearing all the gripes and rivalry comments from both factions. I can see it now... Enthusiast of brand A: I dont' see why you <brand B> guys are having problems. We're not! Enthusiast of brand B: Well if your car made real horsepower you'd be having the same problems! __________________

09-30-2012, 02:47 PM	#8
KMPrenger Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jefferson City, Missouri Posts: 13,969	I really like the 6 speeds in my V6...I think the spacing is just about perfect really. I can see adding a 7th or 8th gear so that 6 - 8 end up becomming the highway gears. Leave 1st where its at, and then just bring gears 2 - 5 in a bit tighter and I think that would be nice. I do like being able to get well over 100 MPH in 3rd though...I would hate to give that up but I'm thinking I'd have to give that up if those gears are brough in tighter. I don't see a need for 9 - 10 gears at all. __________________ 2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties 2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)

09-30-2012, 05:12 PM	#9
FenwickHockey65 General Motors Aficionado Drives: 2023 GMC Canyon, 2023 Expedition Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 37,375 View My Garage	GM trucks will be getting 8 speeds pretty soon. __________________ 2023 GMC Canyon Elevation 2023 Ford Expedition SSV (State-Issued)

09-30-2012, 05:23 PM	#10
Angrybird 12 7 year Cancer Survivor! Drives: 17 Cruze RS, 07 G6 GT, 99 Astro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 21,546	Here is what motortrend has on it. The idea of historic rivals Ford and General Motors working together may seem far-fetched or unbelievable to some, but the two companies have just signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly develop next-generation nine and 10-speed automatic transmissions for use in passenger cars, trucks and SUVs, Automotive News reports. According to the report, GM will take the lead in the development of nine-speed automatic transmissions for use in front-drive and transverse applications, while Ford will head up development on 10-speed automatic transmissions designed for use in rear-drive applications such as performance and luxury cars, trucks and SUVs. This is not the first time the two companies have collaborated on development of transmissions, as the two companies joined forces in 2002 to develop six-speed automatic transmissions for front-wheel drive vehicles. Those transmissions ultimately came to market branded as the Ford 6F and GM 6T70 automatic transmissions used in such high-volume models as the Ford Fusion and Escape, and Chevrolet Cruze and Malibu. There was also speculation going back to 2008 that the two companies were looking at joint powertrain development. Prior to this announcement, both companies were reportedly at work on in-house eight-speed automatic transmissions for use in rear-drive vehicles. GM’s eight-speed may make it to production in limited volumes in the new Cadillac CTS, but Ford’s home-grown eight-speed program has reportedly been scrapped in favor of this new proposed joint-venture. __________________ Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE... The Bird is the word!

09-30-2012, 10:54 AM	#3
MEDISIN Drives: 2011 CTS-V Sedan Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Posts: 1,505 View My Garage	I feel like transmissions are the one area of the drivetrain where American manufacturers are lagging. Both Ford and GM have potent 2.0L turbo 4's now, all we need is an 8+ speed tranny to eek out more mpg without sacrificing power delivery when needed. Hopefully joint development will accelerate the timeline to production.

09-30-2012, 11:08 AM	#4
DarkneSS Account Suspended Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 6MT Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Westchester, New York Posts: 3,715	This is great for American vehicles. A lot of the problems with our 5th gens trannys are because they are cheaply made imported transmissions. Do we really need that many gears though? What will this do for performance?

09-30-2012, 12:23 PM	#6
archtaan Drives: car Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: USA Posts: 305	It will likely increase performance and fuel economy. The 1st 5-6 gears or so will be much more tightly geared and more aggressive for less rpm drop and better gear multiplication. Look at the Chrysler 300 V6 for example. The 5 speed car did 0-60 in 7.3 while the 8 speed car does 0-60 in 6.6 despite being 391 pounds heavier than the previous car (not tranny, overall weight). Combine that with 31mpg on the highway (6 better than the 5 speed) and thats a great combo. Source C&D 5speed vs 8speed 300 V6. Here are Chryslers gear ratios. I suspect GM/Ford will be similar but have some unique gears. Gear 8R70 8 speed 1 4.71 2 3.14 3 2.10 4 1.67 5 1.29 6 1.00 7 0.84 8 0.67 Gear WA580 5 speed 1 3.59 2 2.19 3 1.41 4 1.00 5 0.83

09-30-2012, 01:31 PM	#7
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	Nothing new, several of the current 6 spd FWD trans used since 07 are joint GM/Ford designed. Such as the trans in a Traverse/Acadia/Enclave. I had an '07 Acadia that was reprogrammed I think about 5 times by the dealer with shift updates and never did shift right. It's all a marketing thing... the Joneses have 8 speeds, so the smiths need 9.... then 10... Once it got over 5 speeds, I think the rest is just marketing BS and makes for a busy and horrible shifting transmission. It also kills reliability to jam all those gears and clutch packs into the relatively same size case. You wind up with smaller and lighter parts. Look at a TR6060, and how small the synchros and blockers are. Put only five gears in that case and everything could be bigger and more durable. 6 speed autos are the same way. Build huge horsepower, better yank out that 6 spd auto and replace with a 3 or 4 speed auto with a much stronger build.

10-02-2012, 09:54 AM	#11
Minus_Z28 Drives: Badly. Re: Location Join Date: May 2010 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 29	The corvette guys are claiming GM's 8-speed auto has been revealed to be in the 2014 C7. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-g...found-out.html

10-02-2012, 07:13 PM	#12
Number 3 Hail to the King baby! Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 12,310 View My Garage	Keep in mind, Jaguar used GM automatic transmissions for years. And the dirty secret? Several years ago BMW used GM's 5 speed automatic well before GM ever found a use for it in the CTS. Transmissions are really about calibration these days. Hardware is getting close to invisible to the customer. __________________ "Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley