Ray Lewis took banned substance to recover from torn triceps

[IrocJack]

[Steve Dallas]

If you repeat it enough, maybe it will come true. People that don't live in Baltimore DO care, though...and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Well...now that Ray Lewis is gone, maybe we can move on and enjoy the Ravens now.

[ToolFan66]

My Ray Lewis jersey is in the mail..

[dorfmac]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

If you repeat it enough, maybe it will come true. People that don't live in Baltimore DO care, though...and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Well...now that Ray Lewis is gone, maybe we can move on and enjoy the Ravens now.

I hate to say it, but I think you're actually in the minority on this one. Sure, a lot of Baltimore people overlook it, but TONS more people nationally overlook it than not. That's why you only saw the random article referencing it leading up to the Super Bowl. Many people just don't care, and many others know the truth.

If there's anyone that has been repeating the same mantra on these message boards, across multiple different threads, it's been you. You don't like Ray Lewis, obviously you're in the minority, get over it.

And again, keep the facts straight: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...-murder-trial/

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by dorfmac

I hate to say it, but I think you're actually in the minority on this one. Sure, a lot of Baltimore people overlook it, but TONS more people nationally overlook it than not. That's why you only saw the random article referencing it leading up to the Super Bowl. Many people just don't care, and many others know the truth.

If there's anyone that has been repeating the same mantra on these message boards, across multiple different threads, it's been you. You don't like Ray Lewis, obviously you're in the minority, get over it.

And again, keep the facts straight: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...-murder-trial/

He's not in the minority where I'm from. I guess it's because a lot of folks around here put more stock into the morals and values of someone rather than how well they play football. I don't really care about the doping thing as much as the whole deal with the two murders. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth for good old Ray. I may actually take more of an interest in the Ravens now that Ray is gone.

[dorfmac]

Originally Posted by motorhead

He's not in the minority where I'm from. I guess it's because a lot of folks around here put more stock into the morals and values of someone rather than how well they play football. I don't really care about the doping thing as much as the whole deal with the two murders. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth for good old Ray. I may actually take more of an interest in the Ravens now that Ray is gone.

I'm not sure where "around here" is, but looking at it from a national level, it's clear that your supposed values match up well with your self-righteous response. I say it's self-righteous, because you imply that other people are worse because don't care as much about morals as you do, and obviously there's no way of knowing that.

What many of the people who are Ray Lewis haters because he "murdered" people need to acknowledge is the fact that these deaths were as a result of self-defense rather than an act of murder. That's what the jury - other people who I'm sure have morals -determined and the legal system determined.

[Steve Dallas]

Originally Posted by dorfmac

I'm not sure where "around here" is, but looking at it from a national level, it's clear that your supposed values match up well with your self-righteous response. I say it's self-righteous, because you imply that other people are worse because don't care as much about morals as you do, and obviously there's no way of knowing that.

What many of the people who are Ray Lewis haters because he "murdered" people need to acknowledge is the fact that these deaths were as a result of self-defense rather than an act of murder. That's what the jury - other people who I'm sure have morals -determined and the legal system determined.

Actually, those of us that payed attention to the case (I've watched the testimony) don't think Ray Lewis actually murdered someone.

What we do think is that Ray Lewis had a lot of money, was able to hire good lawyers, deliberately hid evidence and was reluctant and slow about providing information about the case. He was convicted of obstructing justice in a MURDER case for a reason, you know.

It's not a simple white lie he was telling. Someone died because of his gang friends and his actions that night. And he basically hid evidence that could have helped convict his friends.

So, those of us that don't like him...do so because of Ray Lewis' lack of moral values at the time of this murder.

Thus, we don't think he is as good a person as he and you claim he is. As I've said before, I have nothing against the Ravens. I'm glad Ray Lewis is gone so we don't have to focus on his lack of character anymore. You can be certain if he does go into broadcasting, many of us will continue to bring this up until he just fades away only to become famous again when he goes into the football hall of fame (which he should go into...he was a great football player).

[dorfmac]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

Actually, those of us that payed attention to the case (I've watched the testimony) don't think Ray Lewis actually murdered someone.

What we do think is that Ray Lewis had a lot of money, was able to hire good lawyers, deliberately hid evidence and was reluctant and slow about providing information about the case. He was convicted of obstructing justice in a MURDER case for a reason, you know.

It's not a simple white lie he was telling. Someone died because of his gang friends and his actions that night. And he basically hid evidence that could have helped convict his friends.

So, those of us that don't like him...do so because of Ray Lewis' lack of moral values at the time of this murder.

Thus, we don't think he is as good a person as he and you claim he is. As I've said before, I have nothing against the Ravens. I'm glad Ray Lewis is gone so we don't have to focus on his lack of character anymore. You can be certain if he does go into broadcasting, many of us will continue to bring this up until he just fades away only to become famous again when he goes into the football hall of fame (which he should go into...he was a great football player).

I have said that I love Ray Lewis and I am a Ray Lewis supporter - but have not said anywhere that he is necessarily a "good" person.

The jury - again, people who we have no reason to believe are not of sound moral character - stated that this murder was a justified act of self-defense. If that is the case, then sure, Ray Lewis could have been more contrite, but the two people who are dead have a good reason to be. I'm not advocating that death is a good thing, or people "deserve" to die, but the outcome of the court case, decided on by an impartial jury, reflects that it wouldn't be an incorrect statement.

Do you consider Barry Bonds a bad person? Bill Clinton? Martha Stewart? Are you offended every time they are celebrated our seen on TV?

[2010SS2SS]

dorfmac

"murdered" people need to acknowledge is the fact that these deaths were as a result of self-defense rather than an act of murder

So stabbing someone 12-18 times is self defense to you? Also NO WHERE in any reports does it say that it was wrote off as self defense.

Lewis's attorneys, Don Samuel and Ed Garland, of the Atlanta law firm Garland, Samuel & Loeb, negotiated a plea agreement with Howard, where the murder charges against Lewis were dismissed in exchange for his testimony against Oakley and Sweeting,[49] and his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of justice.[15] Lewis admitted he gave a misleading statement to police on the morning after the killings. Superior Court Judge Alice D. Bonner sentenced Lewis to 12 months' probation. One year in prison is the maximum sentence for a first-time offender,[50] and the immediate probation was the judge's decision. He was also fined $250,000 by the NFL, which was believed to be the highest fine levied against an NFL player for an infraction not involving substance abuse.[51] Under the terms of the sentence, Lewis could not use drugs or alcohol during the duration of the probation.

Oakley and Sweeting were acquitted of the charges in June 2000

He hid and destroyed evidence in the murder (His suit missing, knife cleaned of all DNA, attempted cleaning of the limo, and paying off a female witness in the limo) of two men because they stepped on someones foot. Both Ray Lewis and the other two charged are known gang members of a group called the "posse" out of lakeland, where Lewis was raised.
The fact the you so dearly idiolize this man says nothing for your character or morals. It is an ongoing issue with Ray Lewis and the Ravens will be a better team with out him, just as they were through half the season this year. There ARE plenty of fans out there who still vocalize displeasure with both the Ravens and the NFL for allowing him to continue playing, as with the petition to ESPN to stop them from contracting him as a field commentator.
Idiolize who you want! But don't set there and throw information about it being ruled "justified" or self defense because that is B.S.

[dorfmac]

Also NO WHERE in any reports does it say that it was wrote off as self defense.

Idiolize who you want! But don't set there and throw information about it being ruled "justified" or self defense because that is B.S.

"Joseph Sweeting and Reginald Oakley had hoped the jury would find they acted in self defense. It took only 5 hours for the unanamous veridct acquitting them of all charges. Oakely hugged his lawyer. Sweeting put his head down on the defense table."

http://www.artclu.com/crew/bfoley/la...&story=10&pg=1

You won't find it in any official reports, because the jury isn't required to provide a specific reason for acquittal (as far as I know). Oakley and Sweeting went in there using self-defense as the reasoning for their actions. Given that they were acquitted unanimously, it would make sense to believe that the jury bought into that without any doubt otherwise, even though the jury doesn't have to say one way or another. Put another way, why ELSE would the jury have ruled acquittal?

To be honest, I hadn't seen the number of stabs specifically stated anyways, but stabbing someone 12-18 times - does that part really matter? If you are in what you deem a life or death situation, are you going to count how many times you stab someone? Or are you going to stab them until you feel safe or unthreatened? You're not gonna be there thinking "I've stabbed them 8 times now, I can do it a few more times before it looks bad", you're thinking "Holy shit - I need to keep stabbing this person until I am damn well sure they are dead"

It is an ongoing issue with Ray Lewis and the Ravens will be a better team with out him, just as they were through half the season this year.

Totally false. This season, they were 5-1 with Ray Lewis (9-1 including playoffs) and 5-5 without him. You can look at defensive stats before he got hurt and after he got hurt, but then the defense played even better upon his return. Ultimately, a win is a win is a win, and the team record tells that story.

[Steve Dallas]

Not guilty does not mean that they did not do it. I can point to any number of cases where a good well funded defense will let someone who obviously committed the crime off on a technicality. Think one other well known football player, for example. If you followed the case, you know how poorly handled the prosecution was.

The fact that every single Ravens fan ignores and doesn't address is why Ray Lewis hid or destroyed evidence. Simply put, I look at those actions as the main issue as to why I don't trust him at all.

I understand as a fan why you want to try to give him a pass on this kind of stuff. Leroy Hill here in Seattle just got arrested for beating his girlfriend. Frankly, I hope he's gone from the team next year. Marshawn Lynch still faces a possibly DUI. When I found out he did that, I took down all my pictures on the wall. I still think he's an awesome running back, but I definitely have an issue with him and his DUI. I wouldn't call him a great person.

I'm being consistent here. It's a matter of the how despicable the act is. And, despite the not guilty, I don't trust Ray Lewis at all. His never addressing this issue or helping the murder victims families with the truth stains his name even more.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by dorfmac

I'm not sure where "around here" is, but looking at it from a national level, it's clear that your supposed values match up well with your self-righteous response. I say it's self-righteous, because you imply that other people are worse because don't care as much about morals as you do, and obviously there's no way of knowing that.

What many of the people who are Ray Lewis haters because he "murdered" people need to acknowledge is the fact that these deaths were as a result of self-defense rather than an act of murder. That's what the jury - other people who I'm sure have morals -determined and the legal system determined.

I don't know you personally so the only evidence I have to go on as to what you believe is by what you write, and it would appear that you put more stock into someone because they are great football players rather than the type of person they are. I certainly don't believe that I'm better than anyone else. In fact, I know I'm not. I also don't claim to be anymore or less than I am. I don't believe he murdered anyone ,but I believe he was involved and that his money and power got him off. Maybe if we met personally he would change my mind about him. But for right now, I can't support him. Sorry.

[bigd1276]

I'm reading all of these and wondering if Ray Lewis played for the Steelers instead of the Ravens, would dorfmac be such a big supporter?

[2010SS2SS]

HOPED the jury would find they acted in self defense

...

Thats not the case! They were acquited...There is NO reason ever given for the acquital! When you actually read it, three of the prosecution witness's (two of which put Lewis in the middle of the fight throwing punches) changed their testimonies at the last minute and when you look at what most of the prosecutors say, they think there was tampering with witness's with threats or money. Even the lead arresting officer stated they found blood on Lewis's pillow he had slept on and the robe he used afterwards that night. If he didn't do it, He was in the middle of it (which qualfies him for Felony Murder) and lied to get himself and the others off. It wasn't self defense and it wasn't justified, no where near but you can dream it because your idiol was involved.

Seems like others with more footbal knowledge disagree with your STATS!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...hout-ray-lewis

You talk about 5-1 with him and 5-5 without him without even taking into consideration the teams played in the games. 5-1 they played Cinnci, Philly, New England, Cleveland, K.C., and Dallas - Only team the beat that was a contender was New England. As for 5-5 without him losses to Houston (Ass whipping, I was there), Pittsburgh, Washington , Denver, and Cinci. ALL payoff qaulity teams expect Cinci and they were on a role. Wins against Cleveland, Oakland, Pittsburgh, NY Giants and San Diego, which was an OT game they barely pulled out...
They played tougher teams in the second half of the season ...

Justify what you want or try the team is as good if not better off without him and so is the NFL. Everytime he is questioned about anything to do with the murders or anything else for that matter that he doesn't like he lays it off on "God wouldn't allow me to prosper if I was a bad person" shit...or "praises the lord and moves on" I guess only we'll know when he crosses the pearly gates what GOD really thinks about him.