Bankruptcy !!

[rmyers]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

Maybe you could enlighten me on when/where conservatisim/free market is creating this utopia? If Bush wasn't the guy to bring your politcal philosophy to light, who is? Whom should I have voted for to get the "True Conservative"? Where is Conservatisim flourishing? I would assume such a great system would be everywhere.
The condition of our Country is indeed the result of Free Market Capitalism, this is what free market ideas have wrought. Eight years of tax cuts for the wealthist Americans, the investor class. Where are all the jobs those tax cuts were suppose to create? China, Mexico, South America. How about the free market solution to the healthcare crisis? Nearly 50 million uninsured Americans and growing. The only thing that has gotten bigger in the past eight years besides the number of unemployed/uninsured is our National Debt. And think about that National Debt for a minute, your guy doubled it in eight years. It took forty two presidents to accomplish what Bush did all by himself.
You claim the Military is the only successful government program, I would like to know what your criteria was when making that statement? When you say military, that is the DOD (department of defense), I challenge you to goggle DOD fraud, waste, and abuse, then come on back here and tell me what you were thinking when you wrote that.
No offense, but it seems like you just parrot MSM talking points. I don't see any substance to your point of view and its sad that you are trying to rewrite history concerning the bush administration. That was your guy, the compassionate conservative.

You just don't get it. Once again, you are trying to blame the mistakes of Bush on Conservatism. Even though I clearly stated some of the things he did that were NOT conservative. I never said the free/market conservatism is creating a utopia, what I said is that liberals are seeking a utopia, that has historically never worked by implementing socialist leaning liberal big government policies. And it will never happen, life was not meant to be a utopia. I hate to inform you, but George Bush was not the father of conservatism, he was not the guy that brought my conservatism to light, and although I voted for him, he did many things that were not conservative. History will never judge him as a model of true conservatism, so you should really stop using him as your basis for blaming conservatism.

In case you forgot, when Bush took office we were entering into a 3rd quarter of loss in GDP (technical definition of a recessions) then 9/11 happened, and because of those tax cuts, over 6 million jobs were created during those years. While you apparently don't mind the government taking other people's money, why don't you tell me how many poor people you know that are creating jobs for others. I never got a job from a poor person?

But there we go again, making it about a particular person. The unfortunate truth is that for this past election, we didn't have a real conservative to vote for. As for the DOD, lets not expand my example of the Military to the bureaucrats in the DOD. I said the military, meaning the guys in boots and the commanding officers, not those in the Pentagon. In fact by bringing up the DOD, you prove my point. I am still waiting to hear of a single government program that is run effeciently and profitably.

As far healthcare, we don't have a "healthcare crisis", there are people without health coverage, so lets be clear. Of those 50 million people (12 million are probably illegal aliens) without health insurance, how many of those are paying $300-$500 dollar car notes? I would suspect its quite a few. This is a crisis of responsibility and priorities. When someone places a car not above health insurance, well they have set their priority and its their right to do so. No where does it state you have a right to health care, if you believe that, you should file for citizenship in any one of the many other countries that offer it.

And since you can't seem to get off the past administration, and the current one is apparently your guy, please explain to me how his proposed spending is going the help my small business. If you heard his Vice President's answer to that question, you would be amazed at how uninformed these elitist are.

We just have a difference of opinion and philosophy. That being said, I have history to prove my points for conservatism and against liberal spending and big government. And well all you have are examples of failed policies. You can't tell me where your ideas have worked, all you can do is slam the prior administration. While you may begrudge him for the tax cuts to the wealthy and investor class, it created over 6 million jobs.

So I will just leave it at that. There are some people that can never be convinced and this thread is starting to lead away from the intended topic.

Have a nice day, and I look forward to our future exchanges on topics that we have more in common. The good news for now is that it won't be long before we start seeing Camaro's on the roads. And it may very well be "new" roads

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by rmyers

You just don't get it. Once again, you are trying to blame the mistakes of Bush on Conservatism. Even though I clearly stated some of the things he did that were NOT conservative. I never said the free/market conservatism is creating a utopia, what I said is that liberals are seeking a utopia, that has historically never worked by implementing socialist leaning liberal big government policies. And it will never happen, life was not meant to be a utopia. I hate to inform you, but George Bush was not the father of conservatism, he was not the guy that brought my conservatism to light, and although I voted for him, he did many things that were not conservative. History will never judge him as a model of true conservatism, so you should really stop using him as your basis for blaming conservatism.

In case you forgot, when Bush took office we were entering into a 3rd quarter of loss in GDP (technical definition of a recessions) then 9/11 happened, and because of those tax cuts, over 6 million jobs were created during those years. While you apparently don't mind the government taking other people's money, why don't you tell me how many poor people you know that are creating jobs for others. I never got a job from a poor person?

But there we go again, making it about a particular person. The unfortunate truth is that for this past election, we didn't have a real conservative to vote for. As for the DOD, lets not expand my example of the Military to the bureaucrats in the DOD. I said the military, meaning the guys in boots and the commanding officers, not those in the Pentagon. In fact by bringing up the DOD, you prove my point. I am still waiting to hear of a single government program that is run effeciently and profitably.

As far healthcare, we don't have a "healthcare crisis", there are people without health coverage, so lets be clear. Of those 50 million people (12 million are probably illegal aliens) without health insurance, how many of those are paying $300-$500 dollar car notes? I would suspect its quite a few. This is a crisis of responsibility and priorities. When someone places a car not above health insurance, well they have set their priority and its their right to do so. No where does it state you have a right to health care, if you believe that, you should file for citizenship in any one of the many other countries that offer it.

And since you can't seem to get off the past administration, and the current one is apparently your guy, please explain to me how his proposed spending is going the help my small business. If you heard his Vice President's answer to that question, you would be amazed at how uninformed these elitist are.

We just have a difference of opinion and philosophy. That being said, I have history to prove my points for conservatism and against liberal spending and big government. And well all you have are examples of failed policies. You can't tell me where your ideas have worked, all you can do is slam the prior administration. While you may begrudge him for the tax cuts to the wealthy and investor class, it created over 6 million jobs.

So I will just leave it at that. There are some people that can never be convinced and this thread is starting to lead away from the intended topic.

Have a nice day, and I look forward to our future exchanges on topics that we have more in common. The good news for now is that it won't be long before we start seeing Camaro's on the roads. And it may very well be "new" roads

Are you talking about the jobs created at the Department of homeland security? What six million Jobs, please elaborate because just thowing it out there doesn't make it true. I use Bush as a figure head, conservatives also controlled both houses of congress. For the record, I never said liberlism was going to create a utopia or that I like to send my money to them. My point is government is necessary to promote the general welfare of its citizens and it did a terrible job during the past eight years of conservative rule. Its never going to be perfect, but it is the "least bad" of our options. Again, we are in a healthcare crisis. Just because you have healthcare and feel comfortable guessing as to how many people are without it do to their own poor judgement doesn't make it true, doesn't take into account children that are unfortunate enough to be born into that enviroment, or that our country ranks 29th in the world for infant mortality. Look, I don't want to debate this with you if it makes you uncomfortable, but if you post something that I don't think is true, I have to call you on it.
I'll end this post with a quote from John Kenneth Galbraith, " The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
No hard feelings, we can agree to disagree. I wish the best for you.

[bigralph]

Sorry I know is off topic, but you guys should read this. When Bad Is Good what is money anyway http://www.mondovista.com/money.html

[rmyers]

I stand corrected...it was 3 Million Jobs created during the Bush Administration.

Its also been proven in a recent study that Conservatives are multiple times more generous than their liberal counterparts, so it doesn't really matter what Mr. Galbraith writes, its his opinion but he happens to be wrong, in my opinon. In fact the book that defines morality, pretty much says and I'll paraphrase, "if you don't work, you wont eat". Conservatives aren't selfish, we just want to choose who we give our money to.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I strongly reccomend the political discussion, however 'healthy' end.
Thank you.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I strongly reccomend the political discussion, however 'healthy' end.
Thank you.

If dragon hadn't posted this, I would've gone on another delete rampage...


you guys are so lucky....