War in Russia

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Ah but it does. Even in Poland.
Huh?
On the surface that doesn't make any sense but in the grand scheme of things its a very clever move. The beauty of such a system is that it serves multiple purposes. The missile defense system can be deployed anywhere and it makes a huge political statement: "These are our friends, mess with them and you will be hurt badly". It can defend a nation against hostility, and if the other guy launches a first strike, that invites a retaliatory attack (I hope this never, ever happens). Those hostile nations are defenseless without a similar system in place. This keeps the hostile nations in check. If the bad guys are too afraid to strike, you can strike against them (if you need to) without fear.

I want to be very clear to all members of this site. I am an American patriot and am not defending Russian aggression with my post regarding Russia's right to be concerned about the US missile defense net. I am merely stating that such concerns are logical from a nation that seeks to retain its dominance in the region.

In the interest of diplomacy, the defense net may not be such a great idea since the US is so unwilling to deploy forces in Georgia. Currently, the defense net seems to be a large bluff. We will likely find out very soon since Russia casually threatened Poland with bombardment since they signed a US agreement granting the US the right to plant missiles there.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I want to be very clear to all members of this site. I am an American patriot and am not defending Russian aggression with my post regarding Russia's right to be concerned about the US missile defense net. I am merely stating that such concerns are logical from a nation that seeks to retain its dominance in the region.

In the interest of diplomacy, the defense net may not be such a great idea since the US is so unwilling to deploy forces in Georgia. Currently, the defense net seems to be a large bluff. We will likely find out very soon since Russia casually threatened Poland with bombardment since they signed a US agreement granting the US the right to plant missiles there.

Oh I agree that they have every right to be afraid. In fact, I'd be concerned if they weren't a little shaken by it. They'd know better than anyone if its a bluff, the Russians still have a top notch spy network, thats one of the things they've always done well. So unless these are merely token moves on their part (which is possible) I'd say the tech is pretty legit - you've been working on it for 20+ years. It better work.

Threats are one thing. Acts are another. Putin is a KGB thug, no doubt about it. But he isn't stupid either. He can push around little guys, but the US isn't the type to be easily intimedated. You might have your army tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan but you still have a few trillion dollars worth of navy and airforce that aren't too busy right now.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Oh I agree that they have every right to be afraid. In fact, I'd be concerned if they weren't a little shaken by it. They'd know better than anyone if its a bluff, the Russians still have a top notch spy network, thats one of the things they've always done well. So unless these are merely token moves on their part (which is possible) I'd say the tech is pretty legit - you've been working on it for 20+ years. It better work.

Threats are one thing. Acts are another. Putin is a KGB thug, no doubt about it. But he isn't stupid either. He can push around little guys, but the US isn't the type to be easily intimedated. You might have your army tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan but you still have a few trillion dollars worth of navy and airforce that aren't too busy right now.

That's the cold hard truth, and Americans wouldn't hesitate to stand up to Russia. Historic precedents show how tough the US will stand even when tied up elsewhere. A nation as equally matched as Russia is a threat, but neither nation is likely to pull the nuclear trigger unless some serious conventional warfare comes to pass. Everyone remembers the Cold War era, and no one is letting that communist reputation go away quickly.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by CBC

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has said his country's troops would begin pulling back from their positions in Georgia on Monday. The withdrawal plan was disclosed in a phone call to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who brokered a Russian-Georgian ceasefire agreement, the Kremlin said on Sunday
Medvedev said Russian forces would move toward Georgia's breakaway province of South Ossetia, but he stopped short of promising they would return to Russia. He also gave no firm deadline for completion of the withdrawal.
Observers believe Russia could maintain a sizeable force in South Ossetia, fuelling speculation that Moscow could seek to eventually annex the region.
The ceasefire plan calls for both sides to pull back to positions they held just over a week ago, before the fighting began.
The province is at the heart of a conflict between the two countries that erupted in violence earlier this month when the Georgian government launched an assault to take back control of the Russian-backed territory.
Russia said hundreds of civilians, many of them Russian citizens, were killed in the Georgian bombardment. However, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili accuses Russia of ethnic cleansing.
During a joint news conference Sunday with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in the Georgian capital Tbilisi, Saakashvili cited reports of looting and attacks on Georgians by separatist militia in recent days.
"They are throwing people out of their houses. And they are not only doing that, but they acknowledge that they are doing that, and they are doing ethnic cleansing," he said.
He also called for international monitoring of the pullout.
Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili, left, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel speak while meeting in the Georgian capital Tbilisi on Sunday. (Shakh Aivazov/Associated Press) On Friday, U.S. President George W. Bush said the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia are officially recognized as part of Georgia even if their sympathies lie with Moscow.
But on Sunday, Marc Perrin de Brichambaut, the secretary general of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, disagreed.
"The political future of South Ossetia is by definition for the South Ossetians to determine. They live in a difficult context. They have to take into account the facts of history, the facts of geography, the realities of today's world," he said.
Meanwhile, aid agencies estimate there are about 80,000 internally displaced people who have fled the conflict zones and taken shelter in and around Tbilisi.
"David Womble, Georgia's national director for World Vision, said those involved in the aid effort are running out of spaces for them.
"They're literally occupying almost every available building, including schools and kindergartens. And the school year starts on Sept. 1, so it's going to be an issue in the next two weeks," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/0...a-georgia.html

[Beelzebubba]

Originally Posted by Wm Holden

there is no spoon.

The Tick and I respectfully disagree Neo.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Beelzebubba

The Tick and I respectfully disagree Neo.

Umm, it was "shaved head spoon boy" (did he even have a name?) that said that, not Neo.

[The_Blur]

MSNBC has posted an interesting article. Note that Russia blames Georgia for bombing their own breakaway province.

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Remember that they are a power with priorities different than the US. They want to be sovereign and have a sphere of influence with neighboring regions. The US is stepping on Russian toes by introducing a missile defense net nowhere near American borders. Even if the intent of the net were to defend US allies, the net does not protect countries with hostile neighbors, like South Korea, Japan, Israel, or any of South America.

In other words, Russia wants to be able to act unilaterally without the US impeding Russian foreign affairs. As a sovereign nation, Russia has every right to be unhappy or even feel threatened by the US defense net.

On the note you made about claiming 100% accuracy, I just want to add that downplaying it's success rate may not be a bad thing. It allows the US to "need" more missile defense units overseas.

The fact that they want to ACT unilaterally, (given their history) is why Poland and others want US to put in a defense network.
the USSR tried to spend/ build during the cold war, but could not keep up with President Reagan, a Dem congress and the American tax payer (past and future) they built huge #s of planes, we had built quality planes and trained quality pilots (still do) we never tried to keep up with the numbers of tanks/planes/soldiers---- we chose quality over quantity, training and skill over numbers. part of why they are so bold, is all the talk about the American military being over extended, stretched to thin, bla bla bla, sure we are over extended, we have been baby sitting in Iraq ( Iraq- time to get it together and get Iraq back on its feet ) we are in Afghanistan etc... over extended? compared to relaxed on the back porch. But all the over extended talk has given our 'potential enemies' a little confidence. As far as storming the beaches... that can never happen, the worlds largest 2 Air Forces are US, the US Navy has as many planes as the US Air Force (no offense) and both are highly trained, with years of experience and are working with a higher level of quality aircraft and maintainers with superior logistics capabilities (spare parts) BUT the nukes could end the whole world, IF they tried to go that way, they would lose... we all would.
:flag2:

[nester7929]

If you recall, when Kosovo became a nation Russia was furious that the U.S. supported it. This is basically the same thing, the shoe's just on the other foot.