super or turbo

[Mr. Wyndham]

But, like - supercharging an, oh say, LS3..., which is (for the sake of argument) designed to be supercharged in some applications, shouldn't be a problem, right?

[RichieFlorida]

Paxton Novi 2000 is a more affordable option to a TT set-up and bulletproof. I like both set-ups but you need AEM for a TT. You can use a split second for a supercharger and save several thousand right there. here is a pic of a TT set-up in a 69.

[The_Stache]

saw this pick at sts and figured everyone should see what possible with a bad turbo setup (nothing against turbos, they just need to be done right)...

[TFord]

nice pics...richie I saw a TT setup on a 50-something corvette. that setup on that 69 camaro is NICE!

[Mr. Wyndham]

yeah! You know there was a thread floating around with a guy in a Ligenfelter Vette - and i think he Supercharged + Nitroused it!!! But the blower looked nice in that thing!

[MerF]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

saw this pick at sts and figured everyone should see what possible with a bad turbo setup (nothing against turbos, they just need to be done right)...

There's nothign wrong with that turbo. It's just being run hard, probably on a dyno. It's steel....in line with the exhaust. If you hold it wide open long enough it will glow red-hot. I guarantee if you run your stock car wide open for 30 seconds and look at the headers, they are glowing...especially if the car is leaned down a bit with a performance tune (which raises EGTs...Exhaust Gas Temperatures).

Just an FYI.

[TFord]

nice pic MerF heres one of a engine after a HUGE detonation wave. he had a TT setup on a Hemi.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by TFord

nice pic MerF heres one of a engine after a HUGE detonation wave. he had a TT setup on a Hemi.

:eek: ...ouch!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Ooh, damn: I hardly even recognise it for an engine, just the crankshaft and the cyllinders - everything else is scrap!

So...that...won't...happen with a supercharger, right?:o

btw: what exactly is a "detonation wave" anyways, no need for an essay, just a little idea, maybe.

[TFord]

well detonation can happen in any car. If you have ever heard a car knocking or pinging, might have a detonation prob. its caused by preignition, when the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder has been ignited by the spark plug and the smooth burning is interrupted by the unburned mixture in the combustion chamber exploding before the flame front can reach it(compression ignition). The designed combusting process stops, because of the explosion, before the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shockwave reverberates in the combustion chamber, creating a characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and pressures increase catastrophically. And this unfixed can wear the hell out of your cylinder walls. can be caused by using fuel lower than recommended octane rating, incorrect air/fuel ratio, excessive engine heat,(which is why you cant have a turbo without an intercooler) missfire, incorrect timing, and a buch of other thing that correct tuning will prevent. but the kind of detonation in the pic cant be caused in a N/A, or supercharger. the supercharger spins at the same rate as the engine so the amount of air forced in is directly proportional. turbos have waistegates so when the turbo has the boost level that it needs the excess air is released. if the waiste gate sticks shut then the turbocharger's output flow volume exceeds the engine's volumetric flow, and as you go faster the uncontrolled volume increases untill it pops basically.

[MerF]

Sorry, I'm OCD perfectionist, and there's some stuff I gotta clear up.

Originally Posted by TFord

preignition, when the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder has been ignited by the spark plug and the smooth burning is interrupted by the unburned mixture in the combustion chamber exploding before the flame front can reach it(compression ignition).

Not exactly...pre-ignition is when the air/fuel mixture explodes BEFORE the spark plug ignites it. The heat and/or compression in the CC (combustion chamber) causes the mixture to ignite BEFORE the piston has traveled to the the top of the stroke...more on this later. The reason for this is fule that is too low of an octane rating for the pressure or too lean for the heat generated in the engine.

And this unfixed can wear the hell out of your cylinder walls.

The cylinders won't even feel the effects of pinging. The damage is done on the head, piston, and rotating assembly. Of course, when any of these three fail, the effects will be that something goes sideways instead of up and down, and THAT'S when the cylinders get hosed.

which is why you cant have a turbo without an intercooler)

You can have a turbo without an intercooler, it just won't be able to produce as much power. You will be held back by the lack of cooling the compressed air, but it will still work fine.

but the kind of detonation in the pic cant be caused in a N/A, or supercharger. the supercharger spins at the same rate as the engine so the amount of air forced in is directly proportional.

Boost is boost....compression is compression. If you are running 12 PSI and lean out with a SC, it's no different than running 12 PSI and leaning out on a turbo...you will blow the engine up regardless.

turbos have waistegates so when the turbo has the boost level that it needs the excess air is released. if the waiste gate sticks shut then the turbocharger's output flow volume exceeds the engine's volumetric flow, and as you go faster the uncontrolled volume increases untill it pops basically.

Sorta. The wastegate re-directs the exhaust gasses around the turbo instead of through it. The turbo relies on the escaping hot gasses from the exhaust to spool it up, which is converted to mechanical energy via a shaft so that a compressor on the other side can push cool air back into the intake side of the engine. More exhaust means more intake pressure (aka-boost). So once the turbo is where it is supposed to be boosting, the wastegate starts to open to allow the exhaust an alternate path to keep the turbo at that level. The only thing on the INTAKE side of the turbo is the recirc-valve (aka: blow-off valve) that's sole purpose is to relieve the boost levels in the intake piping when the throttle plate closes (letting off the gas) and the boost has nowhere to go....in other words, back through the turbo's compressor which will ultimately cause amage to the compressor and the shaft.

Ok, this turned into an essay afterall!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by MerF

The only thing on the INTAKE side of the turbo is the recirc-valve (aka: blow-off valve) that's sole purpose is to relieve the boost levels in the intake piping when the throttle plate closes (letting off the gas) and the boost has nowhere to go....in other words, back through the turbo's compressor which will ultimately cause amage to the compressor and the shaft.

I figured something like this had to exist, how does it work with the Supercharger, the same deal?

And Thanks for all the info: you all wouldn't believe how much I'm learning!!!

[KILLER74Z28]

Originally Posted by TFord

nice pic MerF heres one of a engine after a HUGE detonation wave. he had a TT setup on a Hemi.

HOLY CRAP ...

[MerF]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I figured something like this had to exist, how does it work with the Supercharger, the same deal?

And Thanks for all the info: you all wouldn't believe how much I'm learning!!!

The roots-style blowers (any supercharger that is attached directly to the head) has a recirculation feature built into it...it's automatic.

Superchargers like a Vortech, etc, that are basically a turbo with a pully instead of an exhaust housing can either use a recirc-valve, or you can install an external blow-off valve. That's why you can hear blow-off valves when some supercharged cars are shifting...they are probbaly using a Vortech-type of blower.