Electric Vehicles

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Rhetorically... what would happen if the UK subsidies and regulations were rolled back? In europe we'll probably never know, but evidence in the US suggests a pretty rapid rollback to ICE.

Subsidies are (slowly) being reduced, and are only on business owners with higher value vehicles to begin with - doesnt seem to have affected sales so faR but as I say, its a very slow rollback.

I think its an experience thing, apparently >90% of EV owners say they will replace with another EV, as they become more popular more people are realising particularly the chinese examples are actually capable and good value and having a full tank every morning 1/10th normal cost is a win too.

I can easily see it being 80-90% electric here within 10 years, as it stands it feels like half the cars you see are EVs, the numbers say less than 50% of new sales are ICE.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by docwra

Subsidies are (slowly) being reduced, and are only on business owners with higher value vehicles to begin with - doesnt seem to have affected sales so faR but as I say, its a very slow rollback.

I think its an experience thing, apparently >90% of EV owners say they will replace with another EV, as they become more popular more people are realising particularly the chinese examples are actually capable and good value and having a full tank every morning 1/10th normal cost is a win too.

I can easily see it being 80-90% electric here within 10 years, as it stands it feels like half the cars you see are EVs, the numbers say less than 50% of new sales are ICE.

It may be like that in the UK and other parts of the world but in the United States the new EV market is about 10% of total car sales.

America simply isn’t interested and the infrastructure to accommodate 80% EV is NOT here.

[Martinjlm]

I just got back from a trip to Buffalo to visit family and also go to the first round NCAA Tournament games. Both Michigan and Michigan State won, so happy times.

A couple fun facts...

• My Lucid has 118 kWh battery, 112 usable.
• I started the outbound trip with 100% charge. I used 82 kWh driving from Detroit to Buffalo at 70 - 75 mph. That's 3.37 mi/kWh.
• I arrived with 103 miles left on the clock. About 26% range left.
• For the trip home I started with 86% range. Used 77% for the trip and plugged in at home with 9%, about 44 miles, range left.
• Averaged 3.45 mi/kWh for the trip home.
• Both of those mi/kWh numbers are BETTER than my wife's Tesla gets in city driving. EVs typically are more efficient in city driving than highway driving because speed and aero is what kills EV range on the highway, even more than cold.

So no need to stop in either direction. Except for the fact that the car's range is bigger than my bladder. I made one stop in each direction to unload and reload coffee.

[speedyink1]

"The infrastructure isn't there" literally does not apply for most people living in houses. If you don't have much reason to travel and do most of your commuting within a 100 miles, you basically never need to use a charger outside of what's at your house.

I think it's more to do with interest, and maybe pricing. "Luxury EV" just doesn't make a ton of sense with the amount of value they lose. New ones that cost less from the beginning seem to make more sense, and there is a huge lack of those, at least here.

I don't have an electric vehicle, I prefer my gas vehicles for the enjoyment factor. If they become cheap enough though, I could see maybe one day also having an electric car as a second car for the times I don't care and just want some groceries or what have you.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by speedyink1

"The infrastructure isn't there" literally does not apply for most people living in houses. If you don't have much reason to travel and do most of your commuting within a 100 miles, you basically never need to use a charger outside of what's at your house.

And where do you think the ability to charge at home comes from? Infrastructure. The vast majority of the US simply does not have the electrical infrastructure in place to handle such a large quantity of people charging, it doesn't matter if they charge at home or at a station.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

And where do you think the ability to charge at home comes from? Infrastructure. The vast majority of the US simply does not have the electrical infrastructure in place to handle such a large quantity of people charging, it doesn't matter if they charge at home or at a station.

True, but it's not really the "infrastructure" that people are talking about when they talk about "EV charging infrastructure". They are typically talking about publicly available charging, which is more prevalent than non-EV drivers would ever know and it's growing. Whenever I drive an EV on a route in my nav system it points out way more charging locations than I would ever need to stop at. Because we are used to seeing gas stations everywhere and don't see chargers everywhere we assume they are not there. If you're not looking for them you may never see them. But if you're driving an EV your car will take you directly to them.

The red dots are just locations of Tesla chargers on my frequent routes between Detroit and Buffalo. The dark circle is how far my 80% state of charge will take me. 100% will get the Tesla alll the way to Buffalo. The Lucid can get there on less than 80%. If I added non-Tesla charger systems like ElectrifyAmerica, ElectrifyCanada, EVGo, Blink, iONNA, etc to the map there'd be a lot more dots.

As far as charging at home, for people who don't drive a lot a simple 120V plug can do the trick. I have a neighbor who has had a Cadillac Lyriq for two years now and never added a 240V line because she only drives about 20 - 25 miles a day. Her 120V line can replace that 25 miles easily overnight. And even if it didn't, her vehicle range is about 300 miles so she can go days without ever plugging it in.

As far as the grid is concerned, even with tens of thousands of EVs plugged in at night during off-peak hours, the grid is not taxed at all. It's middle of the day when businesses are operating, air conditioners are running, people are using escalators and elevators and the such that the grid is taxed. At night when all those things are typically idle, the amount of electricity pulled by EVs while their owners sleep is very manageable. That's why off-peak electricity rates are so low compared to peak hour rates. To encourage off-peak charging and discourage middle of the day peak demand charging.

[speedyink1]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

And where do you think the ability to charge at home comes from? Infrastructure. The vast majority of the US simply does not have the electrical infrastructure in place to handle such a large quantity of people charging, it doesn't matter if they charge at home or at a station.

Martin replied correctly above. Most people when they say they didn't buy an EV "because the infrastructure isn't there" are stating the lack of charging stations. I don't think "I'm worried the power grid can't handle it" is a sticking point for any purchase, car or otherwise.

[Martinjlm]

Well, I guess since technically the company no longer exists I can say something about it without violating NDA.

https://insideevs.com/news/791060/so...-evs-canceled/

We did some consulting work for Sony Honda Motors. The car was pretty cool, but in my opinion at least, a bit late to the party. If it had launched a year ago, and maybe at a slightly lower price it would have had a chance.

Since Honda cancelled all their US-built EVs it didn't make since for Afeela to continue. It would have been alongside Lucid as a slightly higher priced but better appointed alternative to Tesla.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by speedyink1

Martin replied correctly above. Most people when they say they didn't buy an EV "because the infrastructure isn't there" are stating the lack of charging stations. I don't think "I'm worried the power grid can't handle it" is a sticking point for any purchase, car or otherwise.

It's not just quantity, it's quality. Many don't work and aren't well maintained or don't charge at expected rates. I suspect that changes. And of course for those that can't charge at home, we need 0-80% to be on par with the 5 minutes or less it takes to fill a gas tank.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

It's not just quantity, it's quality. Many don't work and aren't well maintained or don't charge at expected rates. I suspect that changes. And of course for those that can't charge at home, we need 0-80% to be on par with the 5 minutes or less it takes to fill a gas tank.

Why? I could equally argue that I need my ICE to fill itself up overnight while I sleep.

In 3 years of owning a Tesla Model Y we've had to wait for charging something like a dozen times. By wait I mean anywhere from 1 minute to an hour. Otherwise, all those "5 minute" refills took place while we slept.

In 2 years of owning an Equinox EV I've had to "wait for refill" probably 6 - 8 times total. Same definition of "wait". That vehicle just got turned in off lease.

In 3 months of ownership I have waited 6 times on average a half hour at a time to charge my Lucid Air. "Had to" is relative because I didn't really need to charge but was taking advantage of free charging that I had from Lucid that expired in February. Other than that I avoid "5 minute refills" by letting it charge overnight. Last week I drove it from Detroit to Buffalo and back. I did stop once in each direction, but not to charge. Bio breaks that took more than 5 minutes, otherwise I could have driven straight through without a "5 minute refill".

I wouldn't argue with you about the quality of charging infrastructure. It is an issue and it is improving. Not the horror stories from a couple years ago, but not insignificant yet.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by olrocker

It may be like that in the UK and other parts of the world but in the United States the new EV market is about 10% of total car sales.

America simply isn’t interested and the infrastructure to accommodate 80% EV is NOT here.

Funny old thing, 5 years ago Europe didnt have the infrastructure, a few years before that no-one was interested in EVs either.

Its called progress, in a country that bought more Prius than anyone else and is currently seeing hybrids make up 20% of all car sales its somewhat inevitable EV infrastructure and sales will increase over time.

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by docwra

Funny old thing, 5 years ago Europe didnt have the infrastructure, a few years before that no-one was interested in EVs either.

Its called progress, in a country that bought more Prius than anyone else and is currently seeing hybrids make up 20% of all car sales its somewhat inevitable EV infrastructure and sales will increase over time.

Exactly. These people believe Americans are too stupid to update our infrastructure and we are dooming ourselves to rolling blackouts. Nobody has less faith in American ingenuity than people who oppose EVs.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Why? I could equally argue that I need my ICE to fill itself up overnight while I sleep.

I said for those that can't charge at home. Those folks exist and will continue to exist, especially as it gets harder to find/buy homes (especially detached with parking/garages).

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I said for those that can't charge at home. Those folks exist and will continue to exist, especially as it gets harder to find/buy homes (especially detached with parking/garages).

You did. I missed that. My bad.