UNIONS: Are they partly to blame?

[djsnoflake]

I will pass on this one as well, but I do agree it is a tough situation either way.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by 2010SSRS

first of all.......i AM union (IBEW)...

second, while i agree that the UAW (both Chysler and GM) needs to step back, evaluate and do their part......asking Chrysler (then GM, u know it would happen) to take a $19/hr paycut IS REDICULOUS.. there are other ways to concess, that's not it!

they are asking them to go from $26/hr all the way down to $7/hr.........

would you take that deal? and if you say yes...........U R A LIAR! McDonalds pays that much.

Well, the way I see it, this is not your typical situation requiring a negotiation. Chrysler is saying you can agree to the pay cut or not, it's your choice. However, if you choose NOT to take the pay cut, then they will be forced to shutter ourtheir doors and will pay you $0/hr.

If that happens, you will be looking for another job, and that could very well be, at least in the short term, the very $7/hr McDonald's job you scoffed at.

If it were me, I would be looking for a new job in another field, but if I was unwilling/unable to change professions, then I would rather do what I know I am good at doing for less money than have no job at all. Especially in the current economy

[GM'r_For_Life]

Not meant to put fuel on a fire and yes it will seem like I am.
Food for thought.
Let’s see Mr. Wagner who was just let go with $4,000,000.00 per year the rest of his life.
$4,000,000.00/52 wks in a year/40 hrs. per wk=$1,923.08 per hour. That is retired?????
And you want a worker to WORK for $7.00 per hour.
? What might be the real legacy costs?

[infernoss]

I'm not pro union, and I agree that the UAW needs to make some concessions. Some of their benefits are no longer sustainable or realsitic. It is my understanding they do not even contribute to their own pension plan; if that is true, it's rediculous. I worked for the Federal Government for 25 years and I contributed to my own pension plan. Free yearly legal fees, if this really is a benefit, is another example of a benefit that needs to go.

However I don't believe a reduction of $19.00 per hour is realistic. The majority of these added costs are just legacy fees. I think Chrysler is making demands they hope to get, but don't expect to get. Are they going to shut down all their Canadian plants if they don't? I doubt it; first of all they will have to repay the Canadian Government the money they owe, or have their Canadian plants seized.

I read a summary of a statement the head of the CAW allegedly made, and I must admit it made sense. Why would the UAW agree to the concessions Chrysler management are demanding, only to have the company go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The first thing the Courts and the Canadian Government will demand is the UAW make further cuts. Let's get real.

[BowtieGuy]

What do you mean, partly?

[dayvedayve]

Maybe the Union would be more likelt to negfotiate if Chrysler execs and Higher ups take the same percentage of cuts to their own pay. Dont ask people making $70K a year to take a 50% cut if the big wigs makin $1 mil or more wont take a 50% cut.

[maninbrown]

Chrysler refused more gov aid so that management can keep making millions is one person in management worth 13 workers salaries I don't think so. As a matter of fact I don't think anyone is worth what management makes. The union must take a pay cut but is should be equal to management pay cuts

[DGthe3]

To answer the title of the thread, yes they are partly to blame. Management and government also have a hand in the problems.

But getting back to the specifics, when looking at pay and benefits the UAW workers are getting roughly equal compensation to their non-union counterparts. They still cost the equivalent of ~$20/hr more because of the retirees.

[Morepwr]

I do think that the unions have gotten a bit greedy over the years, but there is no way anybody should have a $19 an hour pay cut!!

Unless they are making $100 an hour or something!

[OUR72GTO]

Apparently of the CURRENT $76.00 per hour cost in Canada $1.00 goes to pay travel insurance for "snowbirds" in the USA. Another 1.00 per hour pays for "semi private " rooms VS a ward when in the hospital. And what are the 29 " spa days " they get per year. ?

[phatman]

Originally Posted by GM'r_For_Life

Not meant to put fuel on a fire and yes it will seem like I am.
Food for thought.
Let’s see Mr. Wagner who was just let go with $4,000,000.00 per year the rest of his life.
$4,000,000.00/52 wks in a year/40 hrs. per wk=$1,923.08 per hour. That is retired?????
And you want a worker to WORK for $7.00 per hour.
? What might be the real legacy costs?

What Union does Mr Wagoner belong to - I want to retire too!

[Vash]

30 million dollar golf course is the ice on the cake. Why does a labor union need a PGA class golf course if they are auto workers? They don't.

Mr Wagoner worked his arse off for GM he earned his check. I like the guy myself. People on the line seemed to like him too.

[AngryAmish]

I'm not sure about anything to do with Benefit Packages in Canada.

In the USA, *if* the $76 dollar package holds true, it could be cut $19. Our package as Teamsters equates to about $55--and I'm not crying poor over here.

When you add in the cost of the people retired, thats when it gets fubared. My pension changed last year. We still don't contribute much, the company pays all but anywhere from $1.50 to $5.00/wk depending on time with the company, upscaling as you go and get vested. We used to be able to retire after 25 years though. It was changed to 30.

In other words, there are ways to scale down the effect of the retired even without taking the cut.

Thats all irrelevent though, because at least some of the companies found solutions. Unfortunately it just wasn't soon enough.

To sum it all up, everyone is to blame to an extent. The first thing on my mind isn't the package cuts though, its both sides dragging their feet and prolonging a problem that could have been solved sooner.

[hoozat]

Well this may be handwriting on the wall..... if it was me with my job on the line I'd consider thinking things out very carefully.... especailly after reading this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517498,00.html