GM Reveals 2012 Buick LaCrosse with eAssist: 37 MPG Highway

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by syr74

Nice to see you have no trouble glossing over the differences here where it suits your needs. Taurus is at 60k units year to date despite that fact that Ford has continually stated that top of the line Limited and SHO models are very much production volume limited. LaCrosse is at 52k units through October of this year and inventory on lot numbers make it very clear that LaCrosse is a lot of things, but volume limited isn't one of them.

As for reasons why the Buick is worth 5k more than the Taurus, it's going to take an imaginative mind to come up with an argument for the same but if you're willing to try I'll read it.

Drive both cars in anything near "spirited" and you'll gladly pay for the Buick name and the chassis that goes with it. Also you will find the Buick much quieter than the Taurus as well. To get close to the Buick, you need to jump to the Lincoln. Yes, I've driven all three cars, and yes, I may be a bit biased, but even the Lincoln is a squirley handfull on some twisties compared to the LaCrosse.

Now if you like the Taurus, that's great. It's a really nice car for the money......................it's just that the LaCrosse is also a good car for the money...............but simply a better car.

In my mind there would be only two possible reasons to buy the Ford, either you like the styling or think Sync is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I too like the Taurus styling. I don't think Sync is all that great but understand why some people do. And both cars are selling well, but remember when the Taurus was the #1 seller at over 300,000 units? Yeahhhh, that was a lonnnng time ago.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by syr74

As an option, I would agree that it makes for a good idea. If it is going to raise the base price of everything 3k like it appears will happen here, that could be bad juju. Standard equipment on Cadillac models might be easier to swallow. A CTS Sport model with a LS3 V-8 and standard eAssist could easily meet or beat the fuel economy of the V-6 model with a much more interesting power curve.

Actually, if every model in the GM lineup recieved this system, the cost increase per model would be drastically lower. Right now, pricing is set to recoup development costs, which are a fixed number. The more cars being sold with this system, the less GM has to charge per car to make up that cost. I don't know how much is actual parts cost and how much is development cost (and also how much is profit) but I could see it adding as little as 1500 per car if every car had it.
- X

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Xanthos

Actually, if every model in the GM lineup recieved this system, the cost increase per model would be drastically lower. Right now, pricing is set to recoup development costs, which are a fixed number. The more cars being sold with this system, the less GM has to charge per car to make up that cost. I don't know how much is actual parts cost and how much is development cost (and also how much is profit) but I could see it adding as little as 1500 per car if every car had it.
- X

That requires a lot of faith regarding what GM did and did not do with pricing here. For all we know the eAssist system adds more than 3k per car to the bottom line and GM reassessed the pricing to try and produce more volume. The reality is that we just don't know.

Originally Posted by Number3

Drive both cars in anything near "spirited" and you'll gladly pay for the Buick name and the chassis that goes with it. Also you will find the Buick much quieter than the Taurus as well. To get close to the Buick, you need to jump to the Lincoln. Yes, I've driven all three cars, and yes, I may be a bit biased, but even the Lincoln is a squirley handfull on some twisties compared to the LaCrosse.

Now if you like the Taurus, that's great. It's a really nice car for the money......................it's just that the LaCrosse is also a good car for the money...............but simply a better car.

In my mind there would be only two possible reasons to buy the Ford, either you like the styling or think Sync is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I too like the Taurus styling. I don't think Sync is all that great but understand why some people do. And both cars are selling well, but remember when the Taurus was the #1 seller at over 300,000 units? Yeahhhh, that was a lonnnng time ago.

I too have driven all three and can say, with confidence, that if spirited driving is on your list then no version of any of these need be on your must drive list outside of the EB equipped Ford models with the Sport Package. But then, I think the reality is that Ford and GM both realize that by and large people aren't buying these to go carve up the closest two lane, which is why Ford offers one sporty offering in the Taurus SHO with Sport package and GM offers exactly none.

That said, I can't imagine taking the V-6 LaCrosse I drove over what was a similarly priced, non sport Package SHO. The SHO had better seats, better features, better ergonomics, and enormously more power for the same amount of cash.

As for the Taurus being a number one seller, considering that the Taurus isn't even in the same segment anymore it's a tough comparison to make. The Fusion holds down that fort now.

[DGthe3]

how the heck did this turn into a Ford vs GM discussion? I could possibly understand it if the Taurus had anything like this system, but it doesn't so I don't see why the comparison is even being made.

Anyway, this is a pretty interesting play by GM. Improving both acceleration and fuel economy for a large car with an I4. While 11kW (15 hp) doesn't sound like much for a car with 180 hp, the e-assist will be mostly in the low rpm range where the gas engine doesn't make nearly so much power. So in reality, it would be more like a 15 hp gain on 30-60 hp ... pretty substantial if you ask me. In fact, I bet that in every day driving the low speed acceleration (say from a stoplight) would be fairly similar to what the V6 is like.

Also, to me its a fairly clear shot across the bow to Toyota/Lexus. People still associate them with hybrids and fuel economy but a bold move like this is sure to bring a lot of attention back to GM and what they're doing.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

how the heck did this turn into a Ford vs GM discussion? I could possibly understand it if the Taurus had anything like this system, but it doesn't so I don't see why the comparison is even being made.

Pretty simple really, 30k in a LaCrosse buys you an extraordinarily base LaCrosse with either the eAssist four or the HF V-6 while the same cash in a Taurus buys you a whole lot of feature content that Buick is going to ask nearly SHO money for in either engine guise. Comparisons were and are a given.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Anyway, this is a pretty interesting play by GM. Improving both acceleration and fuel economy for a large car with an I4. While 11kW (15 hp) doesn't sound like much for a car with 180 hp, the e-assist will be mostly in the low rpm range where the gas engine doesn't make nearly so much power. So in reality, it would be more like a 15 hp gain on 30-60 hp ... pretty substantial if you ask me. In fact, I bet that in every day driving the low speed acceleration (say from a stoplight) would be fairly similar to what the V6 is like.

I think you may be overly optimistic. This is going to be and feel like a slow vehicle...but anybody that attracted by the extra 9mpg is unlikely to care.

Also, to me its a fairly clear shot across the bow to Toyota/Lexus. People still associate them with hybrids and fuel economy but a bold move like this is sure to bring a lot of attention back to GM and what they're doing.

No doubt that is the intent.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by syr74

Where it should be according to whom? This thing competes dead nuts with the Taurus despite the near luxury aspirations GM may have for the brand, and the Taurus starts at a much more reasonable msrp. In fact the sales story reads much the same for these two cars, with the Taurus moving at a much higher average transaction price than Ford expected as well.

The two paths diverge at volume, the Taurus easily best the Buick here likely because the pricing is much more realistic and because the SHO option offers a halo effect that the Buick is currently missing. Ultimately, the reality is that people who spend the extra dough on a Ford get more than just a Buick badge for their trouble. Current sales volume comparisons indicate that people have noticed and they do indeed mind.

Long term I don't see the 'it's expensive because it's a Buick' strategy playing overly well. And the problem is that badge is currently the only justification Buick has for this cars price point.

lol, in your attempt to compare buick to ford, all you have done is affirm how terrible lincoln is at present which does compete with buick far more so than the ford brand.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by syr74

I think you may be overly optimistic. This is going to be and feel like a slow vehicle...but anybody that attracted by the extra 9mpg is unlikely to care.

I never said that it was going to be fast. I was talking about how it would respond to real world driving. Most of the time, people keep the RPM's down below 3000 in everday driving and that is precisely where you'll feel the electric motor the most. Its also where internal combustion engines are their weakest. Plus, you don't drive at wide open throttle most of the time, particularly at low speeds.

I looked up GM's powertrain charts before I made the post, the 2.4L makes ~25 hp at about 1100 rpm. And thats at full throttle too btw, not part throttle like what you'd do if you were driving normally. The 3.0L makes about 40 hp, again full throttle not part. But even using the wide open numbers, 25+15=40. Going on up to 2500 rpm, the 2.4 makes up to about 70 hp to the 3.0L's ~90. But again, thats with full throttle which normally people rarely use at those speeds. Add the eAssist under part throttle and the two will be very similar. And keep in mind that hybrid systems are tuned to use more of the electric motor than the gas engine when possible. Sure, all bets are off if you're trying to merge onto the highway or pass someone, but I wasn't talking about those situations.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by syr74

That requires a lot of faith regarding what GM did and did not do with pricing here. For all we know the eAssist system adds more than 3k per car to the bottom line and GM reassessed the pricing to try and produce more volume. The reality is that we just don't know.

Considering that this is the way GM has priced almost everything in the past, it seems like even more of a leap of faith to think they priced it in any other way.
- X

[Hylton]

This technology is really good stuff. Can't wait to see it go into more GM products.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Why do people argue with that TROLL??? He's constantly coming to a GM favoring site.. and talkin trash about GM. THAT'S A TROLL in my book.

• The eAssist "smart electrification" system produces 25-percent increase in fuel economy
• eAssist technology is standard on all 2012 models with the 2.4L four-cylinder engine
• Provides customers with a full-size luxury sedan featuring 37 mpg highway and 25 mpg city for about $30,000 (exact pricing has not yet been set)
• Boost in fuel economy comes with no compromises in the driving experience

This is spectacular for a car this size. A 25-26% increase from the 19/30 the 2.4L currently gets.

I am thinking the Regal version of this once U.S. production starts, will be in the 39MPG range.. while the upcoming EpII lighter Malibu will be in 40-41MPG range. Question is... why not consider this for the Cruze as well??? It would theoretically boost the already sweet 24/36 to 30 City /45 Hywy:badass:

The eAssist power pack contains the lithium-ion battery pack, the integrated power inverter and 12V power supply. It is located in a compartment between the rear seat and trunk; and it is surprisingly compact and lightweight, weighing only about 65 pounds

I was wondering.. 65lbs extra is astounding.. and GM made other augmentations to equalize this addition of weight by reducing weight in other places. CURRENT Lacrosse 2.4L weighs in at 3829.. this one weighs in at only 6 lbs MORE:WINK:

The eAssist system works with LaCrosse's direct injected 2.4L Ecotec four-cylinder and next-generation six-speed automatic powertrain combination. In the LaCrosse with eAssist, the engine is rated at approximately 180 horsepower (134 kW) and the next-generation Hydra-Matic 6T40 takes transmission technology to the next level with features designed to enhance powertrain efficiency.

I like the fact that they are making an already perfect Tranny even better. I maintain that an 8 Speed MAXIMUM should go to Caddy for bragging rights... because in actuality... 6 is really enuff as long as it is advanced enuff to handle what's necessary and still be extremely efficient.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Since it's the standard powertrain, is it safe to assume this will find its way into many other GM cars in the near future?

I'm seeing this possible trend as well.

Which makes me speculate that the "E-Assist" Equinox/Terrain is coming soon as well... Already hitting 22/32.. this would boost it another 25% to 28 City and 40 HWY...

The new Malibu could easily see 43 MPG
The Cruze could be at 45MPG in regular form and the ECO could jump to over 52 MPG on the road....

37 MPG on a car this size is 37 MPG on a CAR THIS SIZE. This is better than what the Cruze (non Eco)and Civic get by 1 MPG, better than the Corolla by 2 MPG...

...and YES... I just compared a Buick Lacrosse's fuel economy to a Toyota Corolla's and it BEAT IT

[syr74]

Originally Posted by truth411

lol, in your attempt to compare buick to ford, all you have done is affirm how terrible lincoln is at present which does compete with buick far more so than the ford brand.

Actually, I think the exact opposite is true. For all intents and purposes Buick is every bit a mainstream brand right now, they're just marketed and priced like a near luxury brand. To be fair I think GM believes that this is where near luxury brands reside, but other automakers are currently carving out a new identity for the mainstream and that new identity covers where Buick is playing.

Lincoln, Lincoln is nowhere right now. And until Ford straightens out the dealership body issue nowhere is likely where they'll stay. Because lack of product and an unkown future are the only leverage they have to strongarm the dealerships into the position they want them to be in. Is that fair to the dealerships? Hard to say, but it is what it is.

Originally Posted by Xanthos

Considering that this is the way GM has priced almost everything in the past, it seems like even more of a leap of faith to think they priced it in any other way.

I'm not following you on the notion of a pattern here. I used to work in the automotive industry and I assue you the way things were priced confused the heck out of the people doing the pricing as often as not....there is no way we are ever going to know how they arrived at that number or have ths slightest clue what it means until more evidence mounts.

[TheCaptain]

Originally Posted by syr74

...
As for reasons why the Buick is worth 5k more than the Taurus, it's going to take an imaginative mind to come up with an argument for the same but if you're willing to try I'll read it.

I don't know how you get 5 grand difference between the two, unless of course, you like to exaggerate...
Because according to my calc, a base LaCrosse at $31645 CDN, minus $27999 CDN for the base Taurus comes up with $3646.

And isn't the Taurus the old Five Hundred wearing new sheet metal and a lightly updated interior? This being compared to the New LaCrosse eh?

[King Sun]

30k for a buick don't sit right with me. I think those new maximas start off at that.