This doesnt help (UAW pres opens his mouth)

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by HeatherR

Well, I do not work for GM either, but am in a union (teacher's union). Do a little research on the jobs bank--you'll be shocked! It goes a little further than helping pay utilities during a transitional period between jobs. People can milk it for years. I agree that the unions had a valid place, but have not evolved the way they needed to. Again, I was not bashing GM employees-my husband is a GM employee (salaried) and wanted to clarify my original post.

+1

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The part in Bold is what most interests me the most...this is HUGE. It's pretty much the entire point behind a union; worker protection in the event of layoffs. It's gone...that was one of the points the senators kept bringing up during the hearings; I'm glad they chose to get rid of it!!

I agree. I have no problem knowing the guys making American cars are getting paid more than the other auto workers, especially if build quality continues improving and they ultimately do it better than the other guys. However, having to pay laid off workers to not work is a big problem. When the market dies like it has now, you simply can't afford to keep workers on. The ability to adjust employment levels is a huge help to the Big 3 and should change business a lot.

[Mr. Wyndham]

The last thing I'm gonna say in here is this:

Right now, the union is working WITH GM...more than they ever have before...more than anyone ever expected they would; but almost exactly as everybody says they should. Essentially, if you want GM to survive, the UAW agrees with you. Nothing is black and white, but the last thing this situation needs is nasty wishes against unions...lets get through this, then go back to hating if you feel you have to.

[rmyers]

Is it true that there are more people collecting benefits and pensions today than there are that work for GM? This was reported by more than once source I consider to be credible but sometimes they are getting their reports from the same source. I will remain open minded for someone to correct me if that statment is wrong. If it is true, can anyone honestly believe any company could survive under those conditions? I have heard former GM employees on the radio commenting about the Job Bank system and how it has worked for them. Sounded like a pretty good way to get paid for basically doing squat. The UAW should be working with GM, if they fail they would get a lot less. I have a gut feeling that tells me a lot of people have gotten paid for a long time for not doing anything, and unfortunately now it may be time to pay the piper. This should be a lesson for all of us, especially the youngsters on this forum. Save your money and don't count on the government, your union, or your employer to take care of you. It is up to you!

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The last thing I'm gonna say in here is this:

Right now, the union is working WITH GM...more than they ever have before...more than anyone ever expected they would; but almost exactly as everybody says they should. Essentially, if you want GM to survive, the UAW agrees with you. Nothing is black and white, but the last thing this situation needs is nasty wishes against unions...lets get through this, then go back to hating if you feel you have to.

I hope I haven't come across as a UAW Hater. If so I apologize. I know I've been rather critical of them. But, that is because they should be held accountable for their role in this problem. I'm very glad to see they are on the team and cooperative. And I hope it stays that way.

Having said all that, my personal opinion/struggle with unions is why are they entitled to enormously more job protection and security than even our military service members, let alone the average Joe that works just as hard or, arguably, harder? Why should GM be on the hook to pay employees who don't actually work? If I loose my contract I go get another job. It's just that simple My company will not keep me around long if they can't find a new position or contract for me. I applaud GM and the Unions for the security they've tried to implement for their employees. And I think that is a companies choice to do so, not the Government (I know another topic for another time and place). But at this point and time, as cut throat as the auto industry is, they have to trim the fat to be competitive. It does appear that is what is happening. So, that's good.

Originally Posted by rmyers

Is it true that there are more people collecting benefits and pensions today than there are that work for GM? This was reported by more than once source I consider to be credible but sometimes they are getting their reports from the same source. I will remain open minded for someone to correct me if that statment is wrong. If it is true, can anyone honestly believe any company could survive under those conditions? I have heard former GM employees on the radio commenting about the Job Bank system and how it has worked for them. Sounded like a pretty good way to get paid for basically doing squat. The UAW should be working with GM, if they fail they would get a lot less. I have a gut feeling that tells me a lot of people have gotten paid for a long time for not doing anything, and unfortunately now it may be time to pay the piper. This should be a lesson for all of us, especially the youngsters on this forum. Save your money and don't count on the government, your union, or your employer to take care of you. It is up to you!

You are correct as I have heard it also. In addition GM has another problem in this area, among others. One is that a large portion of retirees have been retired longer then they actually worked for GM. So, they've been collecting a pension longer than they collected a paycheck. When you add it all up, this leads to about a 1600 - 2000 dollar difference per car cost increase against the foreign auto companies. In Short GM is upside down in so many ways. These are the decisions that the CEO's should be explaining. Not that they are flying cost effective jets, or that they didn't see the market collapse in their crystal ball.

My 10 cents.

[dbotsfordtat]

Ok last thing I'm going to say about this I swear. I'm sure there are lots of things about UAW that could be changed that would make GM more competitive and less corrupt. However, if you want to paint the employee benefits at GM as overly generous I feel obligated to point out that you are focused on curing a mild rash on the body of America while an unnoticed sucking chest wound is quickly killing us all. The average employee at GM earns about $26.00 an hour. Now heres what Merrill Lynch CEO John Thain made in 2007, ready? $83 Million Dollars. Goldman Sachs' Lloyd Blankfein? $54 Million! Guess Whos getting part of the (NO PUBLIC HEARINGS!) $700 plus billion Wall Street bail out, not loan, BAIL OUT, thats right those two A-holes. If GM goes Bankrupt and are allowed to break the union, consider it another nail in the coffin of the American middle class. Soon we can all work for minimum wage and hopefully Mr. Thain or Blankfein will give us an extra piece of coal to stay warm in the winter.

[GTAHVIT]

^

I'll conceed your point. With only one comment. Comparing the average GM sallary to a CEO's sallary is contradictory to your argument. If the UAW's salaries are just a drop in the bucket, then the CEO salaries would be an even smaller drop. The automaker CEO's have already agreed to work for $1. And the UAW is willing to reduce their cost to GM. So, everyone is playing ball. And yes, that is a good thing.