Dodge ending challenger & charger production

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I had the same conversation with him. Same answer.

Then there was the conversation I had with Jordan Lee (Small Block V8 Chief) on the same topic. The language was different, but the message was the same.

There has always been a fixation on the TT V6. Lots of discussion here over the years on it. Maybe the ease of recalibrating for more HP by simply upping the boost? Did that on my Saturn Sky Redline with the GM approved package.

4 cam shafts vs 1, 24 valves vs 16 and all the matching required for both then add not one but 2 turbos and the prerequisite intercooler. And no real HP increase and only a slight FE increase that disappears in the real world.

Another fun story in this line was when GM put the small block (5.3L if I recall correctly) in the Colorado/Canyon and H3. Cost GM $1,000 less in piece cost and they charged something like $1,500 for the option. The I5 with twin balance shafts was obscurely expensive compared to the small block.

[90503]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

They call it "gateway muscle" Gotta give it to Dodge, the marketing team over yonder knows their stuff.

Without the Hemi, Dodge and MoPar are toast. They got away with a four-door Charger as a muscle car thanks to the Hemi.

Unless you play a loop of their ads constantly in an EV, the marketing hype likely goes away immediately. The suspension of dis-belief is required for marketing and EVs to succeed.....lol

[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by 90503

Without the Hemi, Dodge and MoPar are toast. They got away with a four-door Charger as a muscle car thanks to the Hemi.

Unless you play a loop of their ads constantly in an EV, the marketing hype likely goes away immediately. The suspension of dis-belief is required for marketing and EVs to succeed.....lol

While I know enthusiasts don't drive the market, every enthusiast I know that's bought a top line EV ends up getting rid of it in 6 months. I hear the same comments over and over. "Soulless", "appliance", "fast but super boring", "handles like ass" (lol)...so while the makers obviously don't give a shit about us, they are still going to lose a big portion of our business until they figure out how to address these things.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Number 3

...

Another fun story in this line was when GM put the small block (5.3L if I recall correctly) in the Colorado/Canyon and H3. Cost GM $1,000 less in piece cost and they charged something like $1,500 for the option. The I5 with twin balance shafts was obscurely expensive compared to the small block.

Well there's some fun info I didn't know before. I had one of those "obscurely expensive" I5s in my 2005 Colorado (sold years ago, but running well). I'd have loved to have the 5.3.

[FarmerFran]

Isn't the Electric Musclecar reveal tonight?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

There has always been a fixation on the TT V6. Lots of discussion here over the years on it. Maybe the ease of recalibrating for more HP by simply upping the boost? Did that on my Saturn Sky Redline with the GM approved package.

4 cam shafts vs 1, 24 valves vs 16 and all the matching required for both then add not one but 2 turbos and the prerequisite intercooler. And no real HP increase and only a slight FE increase that disappears in the real world.

Another fun story in this line was when GM put the small block (5.3L if I recall correctly) in the Colorado/Canyon and H3. Cost GM $1,000 less in piece cost and they charged something like $1,500 for the option. The I5 with twin balance shafts was obscurely expensive compared to the small block.

Same story, other side of town… The DOHC V6 base engine in the Charger / Challenger costs more to produce than the 5.7L Hemi. So every time Dodge up sells a customer to the 5.7 (wouldn’t you really rather have a Hemi) they score a double win. Lower cost and more profit.

[Wyzz Kydd]

I can't wait to hear the 'sound' of this ferocious new beast. We thought sound tubes were bad, this makes them seem pretty innocuous.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by rlarsen462

While I know enthusiasts don't drive the market, every enthusiast I know that's bought a top line EV ends up getting rid of it in 6 months. I hear the same comments over and over. "Soulless", "appliance", "fast but super boring", "handles like ass" (lol)...so while the makers obviously don't give a shit about us, they are still going to lose a big portion of our business until they figure out how to address these things.

This is why I hope when the Mustang is the only real muscle/sports car left with a soul for a reasonable price, I hope they sell the sh** out of them. Probably a pipe dream.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Isn't the Electric Musclecar reveal tonight?

Yessir. It’s gonna be wild. Keep in mind it’s a concept. Question being how much of what they show will make it to the production car.

[90503]

https://www.motor1.com/news/604818/d...le-livestream/

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Would having an EV make fake engine noises be even more "ricer" or "poser" than a fart can and giant wing on a Honda?

I thought this as well and maybe its the exception because it isnt 'engine' noises, but I think the Taycan sounds awesome in person.

There is one in the neighborhood where I walk my dog and I honestly love listening to it drive by.

It's not trying to be something it isnt though, and trying to mimic ICE sounds. That's a fail.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Would having an EV make fake engine noises be even more "ricer" or "poser" than a fart can and giant wing on a Honda?

Yes.

At least the ricer mobile is still making it's own sound.

[MIKZ28]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Fact of the matter is most EVs have waiting lists. The Cadillac Lyriq is already sold out for the 2023 model year. If you order one now you’re ordering a 2024 and waiting over a year. Ford has had to stop taking orders on Mach E and Lightning. Meanwhile I can find 2SS Camaros at multiple dealers near me. Not judging which cars are better. I know what I prefer. But it’s pretty clear what more people are interest in buying. And that’s what automakers care about.

Just because there is a waiting list for EV's does not mean everybody wants one. There are parts and chip shortages causing most of the waiting.

[flobb]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Yes, back when cars had style and personality.

Think about then you drive today. What vehicles on the road will force you to turn your head? Not many.

before crash tests and improving the survivability of a pedestrian being hit by 0.0000000000000001% started dictating design