My RT

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Yep, I did. I even looked at one when shopping the Camaro and Challenger.

I've just never gotten that warm fuzzy feeling from a Mustang. I thought maybe if I drove one I'd change my mind, but the dealer wouldn't allow test drives.

I've always been a Chevy fan. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the Challenger and so far it's been an outstanding car, but if you'd told me two years ago I'd own a Dodge anything I'd have never believed it.

I actually just test drove one out of novelty and fell in love with the thing and bought one two weeks later.

I personally think the Challenger is the best looking of the three. I just wish it was more mod friendly as I like to tinker on things.

So how fast is your car right now after the mod's you've made?

My problem with the challenger is the weight killing performance and the enjoyment of driving the car, your thoughts?

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Yep, I did. I even looked at one when shopping the Camaro and Challenger.

I've just never gotten that warm fuzzy feeling from a Mustang. I thought maybe if I drove one I'd change my mind, but the dealer wouldn't allow test drives.

I've always been a Chevy fan. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the Challenger and so far it's been an outstanding car, but if you'd told me two years ago I'd own a Dodge anything I'd have never believed it.

I actually just test drove one out of novelty and fell in love with the thing and bought one two weeks later.

I personally think the Challenger is the best looking of the three. I just wish it was more mod friendly as I like to tinker on things.

There was only two things that kept me from buying the Challenger: The overpriced stickers, and the weight of the car. I like them because they are the more retro of the 3, and it has more features than the Camaro. But I still got say I'm a chevy fan.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I just wish it was more mod friendly as I like to tinker on things.

Part of the problem is the sales numbers. Camaros and Mustangs sell alot more than Challengers. So it will be alot harder for companies to make a profit selling Challenger mods, as their target customer base is alot smaller than companies selling Camaro or Mustang mods.

Also, historically Mopar parts are usually more expensive than Chevy and Ford parts.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Zeus

So how fast is your car right now after the mod's you've made?

My problem with the challenger is the weight killing performance and the enjoyment of driving the car, your thoughts?

Good question, and a complicated answer.

It's kind of odd really. Sitting in the car it feels like a big 1970s muscle car. It's very roomy and comfortable to drive.

However, it has loads of torque. When you mash the go pedal it is surprisingly fast. It has a built in 0-60 timer which I've played with a little. In my limited skill I've managed a 5.74 0-60 time, and that's with the tires spinning completely through first and half way through second (think 40 foot 11's) at 36psi which is way too much for that sort of playing around.

If I could learn to drive I could easily drop under 5 seconds I'm sure, and lots of other guys have already done so. I just don't put much effort into practicing as I just enjoy cruising around and picking on the occasional Mustang GT.

I don't really see the car as that heavy comparatively. I had mine weighed and it was 4140 without me in it and a full tank of fuel, spare tire, and all that jazz.

The Camaro is 3800 right? That's about 300 lbs difference, and while I know the laws of physics state it should make a difference, what is it REALLY?

As soon as there are some 6 speed 2SS/RS Camaros on the local lots I plan to test drive one to see how it feels against my R/T. As of now I have nothing to really compare it to.

I once built a car for a specific purpose. It would perform flawlessly in that particular environment, however it was a PITA to drive around town. I eventually got tired of it and sold it. So you gotta really think about that as well. You could have the fastest most track oriented ride around, but you only spend 5% of your driving time on the track. The other 95% are spent cruising around town.

Sorry for the long winded responses. I'm a chatter box.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I thought maybe if I drove one I'd change my mind, but the dealer wouldn't allow test drives.

Yeah. Here in Austin they only let you drive one if you are pre-approved for a loan, or have a cashiers check to cover the sticker price.

However, when I went to a Dodge dealership, they were worse. They refused to let me drive a Challenger unless I signed an 'Intent to Purchase Agreement', whatever that means. The salesman also told me (in a condescending manner) "Not everyone can drive something this fast anyway". Then he asked what I would be trading in. When I showed him my car, he had that 'dont I look stupid' look on his face.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Part of the problem is the sales numbers. Camaros and Mustangs sell alot more than Challengers. So it will be alot harder for companies to make a profit selling Challenger mods, as their target customer base is alot smaller than companies selling Camaro or Mustang mods.

EXACTLY! That's the one thing I didn't research enough when purchasing. That's really my only complaint.

Originally Posted by a_Username

There was only two things that kept me from buying the Challenger: The overpriced stickers, and the weight of the car.

I tried to explain the weight in the previous post, it just doesn't feel that heavy when you're driving it. I think that's due to the torque bias of the engine. It is VERY surprising when you stomp on the gas.

It is overpriced at MSRP though compared to the competition. I can't for the life of me figure that one out. However, I see quite a few posts of people thinking that their SS Camaro is going to be some kind of collector item and I just have to chuckle. Chevy built more Camaros in July than the Challenger sold all year. The last sales figure I saw for my car (Orange R/T 6 Speed) was around 1200 TOTAL.

Do you guys see many Challengers on the road? I don't. I guess no mods are the price you pay for exclusivity.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Yeah. Here in Austin they only let you drive one if you are pre-approved for a loan, or have a cashiers check to cover the sticker price.

However, when I went to a Dodge dealership, they were worse. They refused to let me drive a Challenger unless I signed an 'Intent to Purchase Agreement', whatever that means. The salesman also told me (in a condescending manner) "Not everyone can drive something this fast anyway". Then he asked what I would be trading in. When I showed him my car, he had that 'dont I look stupid' look on his face.

Hahaha, that's rich. I'm surprised you have trouble. I test drove two different Challengers before buying mine. They offered the SRT, but I didn't really care for it, so I passed.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

EXACTLY! That's the one thing I didn't research enough when purchasing. That's really my only complaint.



I tried to explain the weight in the previous post, it just doesn't feel that heavy when you're driving it. I think that's due to the torque bias of the engine. It is VERY surprising when you stomp on the gas.

It is overpriced at MSRP though compared to the competition. I can't for the life of me figure that one out. However, I see quite a few posts of people thinking that their SS Camaro is going to be some kind of collector item and I just have to chuckle. Chevy built more Camaros in July than the Challenger sold all year. The last sales figure I saw for my car (Orange R/T 6 Speed) was around 1200 TOTAL.

Do you guys see many Challengers on the road? I don't. I guess no mods are the price you pay for exclusivity.

Doesn't matter what it feels like, just matters what the actual weight is.
But, I doubt the 2010 camaro becomes a collector's item as well. I say they will become too common in the next couple years. Honestly I've seen ONE challenger on the road.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Doesn't matter what it feels like, just matters what the actual weight is.

Can you explain a little on that?

I think both would be equally important. The way a car feels is what you actually experience. However, having an engineering background I'm also a numbers guy so I like to know what the numbers are.

I'd personally rather have more torque than anything, since that's what pins you to the seat. 500/500 would be perfect in my eyes for a street car.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Hahaha, that's rich. I'm surprised you have trouble. I test drove two different Challengers before buying mine.

Maybe it's my looks. I look young for my age. I'm 37, but people say I can still pass for 25. I still get carded for alcohol on occasion.

But when I went to a Ford dealer to look at a Mustang GT, it went well. I was there under 5 mins and a salesman came by and asked what I was looking for. I told him a Vista Blue GT with a stick. He said to hold up and he would get the keys to one. As he walked off, he turned to me and said "You do have a license, right?" lol I was test driving one within 10 mins of showing up at the lot.

I will also say I had to track down a salesman at the Dodge dealer I went to. That was after I stood right next to a Challenger for about 10 minutes while a group of them were looking right at me and smoking.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Maybe it's my looks. I look young for my age. I'm 37, but people say I can still pass for 25. I still get carded for alcohol on occasion.

But when I went to a Ford dealer to look at a Mustang GT, it went well. I was there under 5 mins and a salesman came by and asked what I was looking for. I told him a Vista Blue GT with a stick. He said to hold up and he would get the keys to one. As he walked off, he turned to me and said "You do have a license, right?" lol I was test driving one within 10 mins of showing up at the lot.

I will also say I had to track down a salesman at the Dodge dealer I went to. That was after I stood right next to a Challenger for about 10 minutes while a group of them were looking right at me and smoking.

Sounds like the Dodge dealership was bad. I test drove two at one place but they didn't have orange (and couldn't locate one within 1,000 miles). I ended up buying from another dealer that happen to have an orange one on delivery the day after I was there inquiring.

I walked up, about 5 guys over 60 about knocked each other down "Sir, how can we help you?" I said, I need to see your muscle car expert. Four guys backed up and one guy stepped forward and said "that's me". Told him what I wanted, he said we have that exact car scheduled for delivery tomorrow, I'll call ya when it gets here. Boom done.

Turns out he really was a muscle car expert. He restores 1970 cars in his free time. We've become friends and I stop by the dealer to show him my latest upgrades or mods from time to time. He also packaged up every piece of paper that came with my car in a nice envelope for me when I picked it up just in case it became a collector. That was right at the bankruptcy and who knew what was gonna happen.

How do you like the Mustang? I've not driven one of those either, but probably should for comparison sake. Maybe I'll do that this weekend.

What put me off on those was the 315HP rated engine. I wanted 400 or close to it, although I have no idea why that number was in my head. Now it's 500 hahaha.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Good question, and a complicated answer.

It's kind of odd really. Sitting in the car it feels like a big 1970s muscle car. It's very roomy and comfortable to drive.

However, it has loads of torque. When you mash the go pedal it is surprisingly fast. It has a built in 0-60 timer which I've played with a little. In my limited skill I've managed a 5.74 0-60 time, and that's with the tires spinning completely through first and half way through second (think 40 foot 11's) at 36psi which is way too much for that sort of playing around.

If I could learn to drive I could easily drop under 5 seconds I'm sure, and lots of other guys have already done so. I just don't put much effort into practicing as I just enjoy cruising around and picking on the occasional Mustang GT.

I don't really see the car as that heavy comparatively. I had mine weighed and it was 4140 without me in it and a full tank of fuel, spare tire, and all that jazz.

The Camaro is 3800 right? That's about 300 lbs difference, and while I know the laws of physics state it should make a difference, what is it REALLY?

As soon as there are some 6 speed 2SS/RS Camaros on the local lots I plan to test drive one to see how it feels against my R/T. As of now I have nothing to really compare it to.

I once built a car for a specific purpose. It would perform flawlessly in that particular environment, however it was a PITA to drive around town. I eventually got tired of it and sold it. So you gotta really think about that as well. You could have the fastest most track oriented ride around, but you only spend 5% of your driving time on the track. The other 95% are spent cruising around town.

Sorry for the long winded responses. I'm a chatter box.

And how do you fare when you pick on the Mustangs?

[S8ER01Z]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Average drive train loss on a 6 speed is typically accepted at 15%.

400 x .85 = 340

Interesting...so my LS1 5.7L makes 379 crank hp?

379 x .85 = 322

That's nuts..

[2010-1SS-IBM]

I'm still floored by how few Challengers are sold. Stylish, roomy (which neither the Camaro nor the Mustang are), with respectable power. Even the price isn't that much for the RT.